Doing the Maths

Previously:

I felt stupid.

Sitting in conversations with installers, listening to numbers I couldn’t understand or argue with because I didn’t have the vocabulary or the knowledge to argue.

For years I’d had a boiler with a dial on the wall in the hallway. You turned the dial. The house got warmer. That was the entire content of my relationship with home heating, and it was fine — the question of how much heat the house actually needed had never been my problem. Now, suddenly, it was the only question that mattered, and I didn’t know enough to ask it. This is that gap

Heatpunk and the can of worms. The first useful thing I found was a piece of free design software called Heatpunk. It is a freely available heat-loss calculator that an amateur can actually drive — and even getting Heatpunk to give you an answer requires you to type in numbers that, if you’ve never thought about your house in thermal terms, you don’t know how to choose. For completeness, the OpenEnergyMonitor team have since published their own free tool, HeatLoss.js, which covers similar ground.

What’s the U-value of your walls? I don’t know. What’s the U-value of your windows? Whatever the manufacturer said. What’s your air change rate? No idea. What’s the design outdoor temperature for your location? Heatpunk has a default for that, helpfully. That last one was where the can of worms opened.

The −5.6°C moment. Heatpunk’s default 99.6%-percentile design outdoor temperature for my location was −5.6°C.

I sat looking at that number for a long time. I had lived in this house through more than fifteen winters. I had walked out into a lot of mornings, scraped a lot of car windscreens, watched a lot of forecasts. We had never seen −5.6°C. Not once. Not in over fifteen years. And here was the design software — backed by industry guidance — telling me to size my heat pump for a temperature that, in lived experience, did not occur.

That was the moment something shifted. If the design temperature was wrong, what else was wrong? And how would I find out? The answer turned out to be: with patience, and free data.

OpenMeteo publishes historical weather data — nineteen years of it, for any location on earth, for free. Some of it is reanalysis rather than direct measurement, but for working out long-run climatology it’s good enough, and it is dramatically better than the alternative of trusting a single national-standard percentile derived from God knows where.

Nineteen years of daily temperature for my location, downloaded into a spreadsheet. From that, two numbers fell out: the actual 99.6% design temperature for my location was −2.7°C, not −5.6°C. And the heating degree days came to 2,233, not the official 2,494. Both corrections pointed in the same direction: the standards were sizing me for a colder, harder climate than the one I actually lived in.

Walls, windows, and the air. Once I’d corrected the climate inputs, the rest of the calculation was a series of smaller exercises in the same spirit.

The walls. Industry guidance for solid stone says 2.1 W/m²K, which produces a frightening heat loss number for any house with much exposed external wall. But our walls aren’t generic solid stone. They’re whinstone rubble with sandstone dressings, roughly 600 mm thick, with lime plaster on lath on the inside. Working through the layers properly — thermal conductivity of the stone, the cavity-like decoupling effect of the plaster-on-lath, the actual wall thickness — got me to 1.2 W/m²K. Far from insulated standard, but nothing like the disaster the rule of thumb suggested.

The windows, the roof, the floor: each got the same treatment. Industry default first, then a careful look at what was actually there, then a defensible number. Each correction was small. None of them on its own would have changed the heat-loss calculation dramatically. But together, applied consistently across the whole house, they amounted to a different building from the one the installers were quoting against.

The air. At the design stage you can’t measure your air change rate — you have to estimate it. The textbook default for an old house is 1.0 ACH or higher. Our house has had its windows replaced, its unused chimneys sealed, and isn’t draughty in the way a Victorian tenement might be. An honest estimate, not a measurement, was around 0.5 ACH.

With those inputs in place, I ran Heatpunk again. The answer came back: 11.94 kW. About a third of what the installers had been quoting.

Which immediately produced the next problem: was I the one who was wrong?

Is this number correct? I’d just spent weeks teaching myself a vocabulary I hadn’t known existed, then used that vocabulary to disagree with everyone who actually did this for a living. The financial and practical consequences of being wrong were severe. An undersized heat pump in this climate would mean cold rooms in January for the next fifteen years. An oversized one would mean a unit that cycled badly in mild weather, never reaching its rated efficiency, costing thousands more up front for nothing. Heatpunk’s 11.94 kW was a number I had produced by typing things into a piece of free software. I needed a second opinion that didn’t come from the same software, the same inputs, or — frankly — the same nervous amateur.

The second opinion turned out to be sitting in a folder on my computer.

The LPG bills. The boiler had been running this house for fourteen years. Every one of those years had a fuel bill attached to it. 4,173 litres of LPG per year, on average. At 7 kWh per litre, that’s 29,211 kWh of fuel energy going into the boiler annually.

The boiler had been serviced every year since installation, which meant it was running close to its commissioning efficiency. An honest figure for a regularly-serviced, fourteen-year-old combi is around 0.85. So useful heat delivered to the house was about 24,829 kWh per year.

Divide that by my corrected heating degree days, and again by the 24 hours in a day, and you get a heat transfer coefficient of about 0.46 kW/K. At my corrected design ΔT of 21.7°C (19°C indoor, −2.7°C outdoor), that gave a peak demand of 10.05 kW.

Heatpunk had said 11.94. The LPG calculation said 10.05. They didn’t match.

I sat with that gap for a while. Was Heatpunk overestimating? Were my fabric numbers too generous? Was the boiler less efficient than 0.85? Then it occurred to me what I’d left out.

The wood stove. The boiler hadn’t been the only thing heating this house.

Through December, January, and February, we ran a 6 kW wood stove every evening, from 16:00 to 22:00. Six hours a night, ninety nights a year, around 540 hours. A wood stove never delivers its rated output continuously — there’s the ramp up from cold, the steady high output, the ember-stage tail — so call it 65% of rated, an average of about 3.9 kW delivered into the room. That’s another 2,100 kWh of heat that the LPG bill had never seen.

Total household heat demand, properly accounted: 26,900 kWh per year. HTC: about 0.50 kW/K. Peak demand at design ΔT: 10.9 kW.

Heatpunk: 11.94 kW. LPG-plus-stove: 10.9 kW. The two methods agreed within about 9%, which is roughly the precision you should expect when you’re combining an estimated boiler efficiency, a remembered wood stove duty cycle, an HDD against an assumed base, and U-values derived from first principles. What mattered was that both methods said around 11 kW. Neither said 18 kW. Neither said 37 kW.

That was good enough to commit. I specified the 12 kW Vaillant aroTHERM Plus.

What it would have cost to be wrong. If I had accepted the 18 kW figure that one of the installers landed on — and 18 kW was the low end of what I’d been quoted — the consequences would have unfolded over fifteen years. A heat pump 50% larger than the house needs cycles in mild weather instead of modulating, never reaches its rated COP, costs more to buy, costs more to run, and wears out earlier. None of the rest of what I went on to do — the seasonal COP of 4.21, the 68% energy reduction against LPG, the comfortable house at low flow temperatures — would have been possible on top of an oversized base.

The standards-default oversizing that the industry treats as conservative isn’t conservative. It’s expensive, all the way along, and the homeowner pays for it.

Even after the install, I wasn’t sure. Ordering the unit didn’t end the doubt. Two paper calculations agreeing within 9% is reassuring, but it isn’t proof. Both calculations could have been wrong in the same direction. I had used the same building, the same assumptions about sealing, the same intuitions about what “honest” meant for a parameter I couldn’t measure. Heatpunk and the LPG cross-check weren’t fully independent — they were two views of the same input data, dressed up differently.

The unit went in. The pipework got upgraded. The heat pump fired up for the first time. And I still didn’t know whether I’d been right.

That uncertainty is what built the monitoring stack. Not engineering principle. Not hobbyist enthusiasm. I had just attached a fifteen-year decision to the side of my house, and I needed to know whether the decision had been correct. So I put a dedicated electricity meter on the heat pump’s supply. I put ebusd on the Vaillant’s internal communications bus, exposing every internal register the unit was working with. I pushed everything into Home Assistant and then to EmonCMS, where it could be regressed against outdoor temperature to derive the house’s actual heat loss coefficient from observed behaviour.

The data came in slowly across that first heating season. A few cold days, a few mild days, the regression line gradually filling in. And eventually the line said this:

Peak demand: 11.6 kW. Measured HLC: 0.540 kW/K, which corresponds to roughly 11.7 kW at design conditions.

Heatpunk’s 11.94. LPG-plus-stove 10.9. Measured peak 11.6. Regression-derived design load 11.7. Four numbers, four methods, all sitting within about a kilowatt of each other. That was the moment I knew the paper work had been right. Not at commissioning. Not on the first cold day. Months later, when the regression had enough points on it to be trusted, and the line said the same thing the paper had said.

I felt stupid at the start. I was right to feel stupid — I didn’t know any of this. But the route from feeling stupid to knowing the actual answer was just willingness to look up one term, then the next, then the next.

Heatpunk is free. OpenMeteo’s historical weather data is free. Your fuel bills are in your filing cabinet.

The entire calculation cost me nothing but time, and saved me a heat pump I didn’t need and a fifteen-year mistake.

If the message of The House That Couldn’t Have a Heat Pump was that received wisdom is what you get when nobody has bothered to measure, the message of this chapter is narrower and more practical: the maths is doable, and you can do it. The vocabulary may take time to learn and understand. The data is all there waiting for you. And the answer, when you arrive at it from your own house’s actual numbers rather than from somebody else’s defaults, is almost always smaller, cheaper, and more manageable than the industry will tell you.

You don’t need to be an engineer. You need to be willing to question the numbers somebody else hands you, and to spend a few weekends learning enough to do it.

That’s what changed. Not the house. The numbers I knew about it.

Next:

Hello @abidamr

Well done getting to the bottom of all of this and finding the right solution for your home :clap:

Totally agree, I’ve written about similar here Heat loss calculation — OpenEnergyMonitor 0.0.1 documentation , air change rates were one of the big factor that over-inflated heat loss, though this now has been mostly fixed with EN12831:2017, we helped MCS and others get the implementation right on this, though not sure yet how well it’s being applied on a wider basis - as the standard is unfortunately quite complicated Air change rate calculation methods — OpenEnergyMonitor 0.0.1 documentation .

heatloss.js actually predated heatpunk, though heat punk is a far nicer tool, hence I used it in my heat loss calculation guide above :slight_smile:

You (or anyone else interested in this) might enjoy this little tool I created to illustrate the difference between conservative and more realistic assumptions: Super Simple Heat Loss . In the default example a mid-terrace house comes out with a heat loss of 7.7 kW using the older domestic heating design guide air change rates, lower outdoor temp etc and only 3.3 kW using more realistic figures Super Simple Heat Loss :sweat_smile:

I would say a lot of or at least the best parts of the industry is now up to speed with this - and it’s this insight that has made things like heat geek’s zero disrupt model possible.

One thing we have come to appreciate more recently is that over-sizing is not necessarily such a bad thing from a performance perspective - though this is hugely make/model specific. Over-sizing — OpenEnergyMonitor 0.0.1 documentation some heat pump models dont quite achieve their maximum outputs on their datasheets so having a bit of margin is often a good thing Max output testing under defrost conditions — OpenEnergyMonitor 0.0.1 documentation . Where accurate heat loss can help even more than sizing the unit itself is with setting things like the weather compensation settings for the heat pump - it’s easier to select the right curve if your heat loss expectations match reality.

Your particular example is another where accurate heat loss really helps, the higher heat loss figures could have suggested a 3-phase install with costs spiraling out of control. Being able to just get it into the range of a 12 kW vaillant gives you a really nice make and model of heat pump with great controls. The other situation that has been discussed quite a bit on this forum is where a more accurate heat loss makes it possible to select e.g the 8kW daikin altherma rather than the 9 kW daikin altherma (the 9 kW altherma being a rebadged 16 kW unit with relatively poor modulation if your real world heat loss is sub 8 kW in reality).

Regarding the ACH, I have to be honest — your work gave me the confidence to go for 0.5 rather than the 1s and 2s suggested at the time when I was calculating my heat loss. I agree the industry is catching up on the right designs. As I was explaining to someone, it does take time for installers to gain the skills and confidence to propose them. Most of them have enormous knowledge of installing boilers, acquired over many years, and they are now extending that knowledge to heat pumps. Thank you for this forum and the tools you’ve provided — they have been of enormous help to me and I am still learning.

I really enjoyed your write up.

I’ve been down this road too - somewhat similar, old house. The EPC (well out of date) suggests an 18KW heat loss - few installers will come near.

I didn’t see a value in having a new EPC as I wasn’t convinced that it would fair any better.

So I also set about learning HeatPunk. It took a while to get to grips with it and, with a combination of stone, cob, dry lining, block cavity, uPVC, roof insulation - that I can only guess (as I can’t access), I came to a number - about 12.5. I tried to correlate this with oil usage (and some help from other forums) and our usage over four years broadly correlated with my numbers. But I’d also missed out the wood burners, so this would suggest that the heat loss was a little higher than I figured - similar maths to yours.

We’ve had one heat loss survey done by an installer - they came in at 14.5 - so not a million miles away. However, they appeared to take room dimensions but didn’t seem as careful about checking the make up of our fabric - so, did they over estimate or did we under estimate?

We have a second heat loss survey being done later this month by somebody else. It will be interesting to compare the numbers.

A big take away in the heat loss calculations , and probably what you have found too, is that it is full of assumptions and about the only thing that is definite is room size measurement. An incorrect assumption here could over estimate losses while and other there could under estimate and, on average, it will sort of cancel out … but done quickly or done by somebody who doesn’t have a mass of experience, opens the home owner up to a real russian roulette financial game.

My wife is a little nervous about paying for several heat loss calculations. I, on the other hand, feel that it is money reasonably well spent because, with a little knowledge gained by the consumer in using something like HeatPunk, goes a long way toward deciding how believable the numbers from any and all assessor actually are.

Equally, massive amounts of research on best practices for retrofitting an old house, go a long way to being able to agree with (or otherwise) a proposed installer system design - which can also, so easily, screw up operating efficiency.

It is a journey with ups, downs, doubts and nervousness but worth it at the end when it is over and done. After a year, the house is much comfortable and dryer. In addition, we can fine tune the heat pump to our needs unlike the boilers. We kept our wood burner which we use for those long and dark days which brings us some joy. I still enjoy collecting, cutting and staking my wood for those harsh cold winter days :grinning_face:.

Welcome to the forum @purrcat. (I wonder if your UserName gives a clue to one of your other interests :slightly_smiling_face:?)

To add to the excellent guidance given above:

  1. If you (or your wife) would feel better with a bit of insurance, be aware that many HP models have downrated nameplate capabilities from larger versions of the same model range, and that because of this they may actually achieve greater-than-nameplate duties. For example, my 8kW nameplate Samsung HTQ is almost identical to its larger 12kW and 14kW brothers - the heat exchangers are a little smaller but the compressor is the same, and as a consequence I can easily get 10kW from it (the max instantaneous I’ve noticed is 12.5kW, or 50%+ above nameplate). So if (for example) you decide on a 12kW HP, but one which is a re-badged 14kW unit, you’ll probably be able to get 14kW from it in any case.
  2. The heat from your log burner(s) might just be enough to avoid an upsizing of your HP if the model choice is borderline, so take credit for it if you like log burners and don’t mind the extra CO2 you are putting into the environment.
  3. If it avoids you slipping into an costly upgrade to a 3ph supply to your main HP, you can always supplement heating by some other method (a fan heater or two running for a few hours per year shouldn’t break the bank, even at a marginal CoP of 1.0).
  4. If you do end up with a slightly undersized HP, don’t forget that it can make an amazing difference to heat loss if you draw the curtains in unoccupied rooms on very cold days (and are prepared to forego fresh air temporarily by shutting any open windows).

Good luck with your choice - let us know what you decide and why…

Thank you, both, for your comments.

We do enjoy our wood burners and have no wish to remove them or not use them. For some reason, the previous owner of our house didn’t put any form of heating in two of our lounges aside from the wood burners. This causes a large temperature gradient on the ground floor and necessitates additional heating in the lounge that we most frequently use in the evenings.

One of our motivations for moving to a heat pump is to take away the obligation to always burn wood. Not that I don’t like burning it - we live in open space and have an abundant supply of it. The issue is that, as we age, it becomes more and more of an issue to cut down, split it, dry it and cart it into the house regularly. It’s fine for now but in a few years, who knows? Our plan is to add additional radiators in these lounges but MCS seem to insist that if heating is added, it must be sufficient for the room fabric. These rooms have a significant heat loss on account of their wall fabric (which we don’t want to change) and with a wish to keep the flow temperatures as low as possible (below the UFH threshold of the rest of the house), they need to be big. So, it’s a case of agreeing what needs to be fitted with installers and checking affordability and ugliness. We also don’t want fan coils or anything noisy!

We’re already good at drawing curtains, stuffing up gaps, running the oil burner and PV/batteries using Home Assistant automations tuned to cheap periods on Agile and so on. We also understand ventilation/fresh air and have that buttoned down too! As a retired engineer, I’m all about discovery, understanding and making decent and informed choices. It seems as if, and it’s taken quite some convincing, that a heat pump can be cost effective, provided it is used with electricity purchased when it is cheap or coming from our panels … and I’m also looking at adding more batteries/inverters for better off peak storage on the right tariff and better instantaneous load capability.

I’m hoping that whoever comes out to do the heat loss will offer a design approach which suits our house and requirements well, and at a reasonable price. Phone conversations up until now have given me confidence that what is being advocated is considered. We shall see.

Purrcat … yes, a name I have used for many years. Sadly though, the lovely cat from whom the name comes had to be put to sleep last month. My wife and I miss her very much. If we will get another cat, who knows? , but no hurry just now.

The wood burner is also a safety net in case something happen with electricity and/or heat pump. But as you said we are not getting younger! Part of the design, and especially old house, spend little bit of time on the pipe sizing if adequate, especially the main run. I found quite important in my case. You are almost sorted

Indeed, I do feel much more clued up than I was a few months ago. There is so much to learn but it’s good to keep the grey matter ticking over. There’s also a sense of satisfaction in participating in conversations with installers and not feeling like a dummy or feeling like they are treating me as uninformed and explaining things in too simple a design language.

Luckily, all of the ones the I have so far spoken to appreciate the importance of the main pipe sizing. Where it starts to get a little blurred is the way that they tackle the fact that we have two UFH manifolds (and a wish to add some radiator circuits) while I wish to have low and slow flow and, ideally, keep away from blending valves and a huge number of pumps and separators.

Wow your place must be huge…

An off-the-wall thought for these two rooms. One option if you don’t like huge radiators, and have some spare cash, would be to put in a smaller main A2W HP to serve the rest of the house (maybe 8kW), and a second smaller split unit A2A HP (say a 5kW Outdoor Unit and two 2.5kW Indoor Units, one in each lounge. The latter would also give you the option for air conditioning in the lounges at the flick of a switch, not that you’re likely to need it if you have thick walls. You’d need to check the BUS grant situation, but in hindsight this is the arrangement I should have gone for, given our increasingly hot summers.

It’s all relative I guess: the house is a little under 300 square metres.

The two lounges are in the older part - one has cob walls, the other has stone. Each has a heat loss, according to my calculations, of around 1750 watts on average. Hence the need for sizeable radiators if a low flow temperature is to be maintained.

It would be a struggle to add more than a single heating/cooling unit on grounds of cost as well as looks. I feel an obligation to keep the house character as much as possible (we’re not listed). A heat pump, even though my wife is less keen, is viable. Anything more than that would start to become an issue for her I think. Plus, even in this heat, the cob section of the house remains reasonably cool - the stone section, which is affected by solar gain much more, less so. … but closing windows and blinds certainly helps!

Hi, if your keeping your log burners, you can be quite flexible with the heat pump sizing as the lig burners take up the slack if your a little undersized. I would be tempted to DIY (I learnt and did)

Buy something like this Haier AW122MXGHA Monobloc GT R290 Air Source Heat Pump, 12 kW Output | Wolseley

It puts out 11.2kW at -2 and 45 Deg flow temperature. Leave radiators as they are, but be ready to change some out for bigger as you find out which rooms are a little cooler than others. I would also hydraulically separate heat pump from heating system to give you some flexibility in design. Use close coupled tees. Then flow match both sides of the system (primary loop for ASHP and secondary for heating system). Then run weather compensation to drip feed energy into the house.

If want to make a little more simply add an Adia Thermal, https://www.adiathermal.co.uk/

It will sort out the flows through the system and smarter modulation revs and also tell you which radiators to upgrade it you want after a month.

You might want to look into a different type of radiator that has a heat exchange (and optionally fans), which has significantly higher heat output than a traditional passive design.

Agreed; @purrcat for example, the Jaga Strada Hybrid at 800mmW x 500mmH gives a broadly similar heat output to a 1600x600mm K2 radiator… less than half the size, and that’s at the lowest fan speed setting (inaudible).

There are loads of fancoil-type radiators out there, some quieter than others, some with better control mechanisms. The likes of Jaga are the gold-standard, but for example Daikin make decent units for a third of the price.

The big advantage of fancoils/fan convectors is that they can be used for cooling with good effect. Don’t let the worry about noise put you off!

Interesting points everyone, thank you.

Thirty years ago I may have been tempted to install it myself. These days, as my uncle used to wind up my dad by saying I’ll “put my hand in my pocket” and pay somebody - once I feel I can trust what they are saying and planning to do. Plus, I’m keen to get my £9K BUS grant and VAT exemption too!

Even so, information is king and your suggestions are very interesting.

I hadn’t heard of the Jaga fan coils, the cheaper ones, yes, but not those. It would seem from what I have since read that they offer the same heat output but with a smaller foot print to a standard radiator on account of a heat exchanger (pipes and fins) rather than a pressed steel vessel. Presumably, these, and most fan coil units can be run without the fans running, it simply taking longer to convect their heat into the room?

I can see a fan coil being OK provided we don’t have to have the fans running - I can just sense that the noise from them, at whatever ambient level, will become irritating ! Presumably also, without the fans running, their serviceable life will be longer too?

Yes, Jaga publish detailed heat output specs with/without fans running, and have an Excel calculator tool to make it simple to look this up. The taller the ‘shroud’ cover, the greater the passive convection effect.

With regards to fan noise: as someone who is very sensitive to ambient noise myself, I can say that unless I manually ‘boost’ the fan array in cooling mode, I can genuinely not hear the array of 8x 140mm Noctua fans fitted to the large K3 rad in our living room all year round. The fan speed curve is set to keep them spinning at under 500rpm at all times (unless manually boosted), which is actually, really, inaudible.

The off the shelf Jaga Hybrid units have several fan speed profiles; the slowest of these is also inaudible.

Thank you for confirm this ectoplasmosis . In our more frequently used lounge, the easiest pipe run is to a wall immediately behind where we sit. The big problem here is that this is a stud partition wall which covers a redundant fireplace and it doesn’t have insulation between the studs. I have concerns that any vibration from fans will resonate in the cavity and amplify the noise in a similar way to a loudspeaker. I am familiar with the concept of Noctua fans from the perspective of quiet PC’s - so they are clearly considering noise pollution in their design philosophy.

I’ll wait with interest now to see what the prospective installers suggest.