Samsung EHS mono 5kw settings

Hmm, but I still not understand why and how did you calculate I need 6.1m head ? Sorry but I’m pretty new and simply don’t understand. If I look at the pumps 25-40 and 25-60 I can see that 60 is twice stronger ? Or it’s 4m vs 6m height. If 25-40 gives me 16 l/m what would 25-60 give me ??? Still 25-60 is better than 25-40 or ? So how much 20 l/m will 25-60 gives me ??? Sorry for maybe stupid questions but price difference between 25-60 and 25-80 is huge. But anyway 25-80 should resolve the flow right ? Maybe I will buy something cheap then.

Problem is that I don’t know how much it needs ? At start it always ask for 100% but over time running it is decreasing. So after a while, maybe 30 or 60 minutes even 25-40 is enough. Problem is at start…

All lockshields on all radiators are already fully open so this 16 l/s is as much as I can get with current pump.

@Michal_S

When Ian says “3.2 m head”, this means that the pump is providing a pressure equivalent to the pressure at the bottom of a column of still water 3.2 m high, or about 0.314 bar.

10 m head ≈ 1 bar

It has nothing to do with the height of the radiators, because the weight of the water in the “down” pipe is almost the same, but a fraction more than, the weight of the water in the “up” pipe. And the difference is because hot water is lighter than cold water.

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I have done the maths for you. you can either accept my maths or try to do it yourself but you keep getting it wrong because you don’t understand it. pump curves are not easy things to understand, to be honest, so that’s ok. The information is in engineeringtoolbox. If you can’t understand that , that’s fine, in which case please trust my answer. If I’ve made a mistake in the maths , I’ve no doubt one of the other fine folk on here will pick it up.

TLDR: a 60 is pointless. you need an 80. yes, an 80 will cost more. yes , an 80 will give you the flow you need.

If ALL lockshields are fully open then radiators nearest the pump will be taking more flow and those furthest away less. you need to balance the radiators so that all radiators send their fair amount of heat into the house. This will not affect flow rate but it will improve output. There is a good thread somewhere on here about balancing, not going to repeat it.

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The pump will always run at 100% at startup then it will slow down to whatever speed is needed to maintain the DT for the amount of heat required. 16L/min will deliver 5.6kW at DT5, if your pump is modulating lower than this it means that it’s delivering less heat, which is expected when it’s not very cold.

23L/min is required to deliver the full 8kW of heat at DT5, you will only need this in very cold weather and quite possibly you will never be able to have 8kW of heat at flow temperature you want since it sounds like your radiators are undersized. I think you need to go back to basics to do a room by room heat loss calculation to see if your radiators and pipework are correctly sized. Adjusting controller and pump settings will only go so far, if your heat pump is oversized compared to the emitters and pipework there’s not much you can do to improve efficiency until this is resolved.

I would recommend https://heatpunk.co.uk for calculating heat loss, this has Samsung heatpumps integrated into it.

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@Robert.Wall @glyn.hudson @Ian_Calderbank

Guys, I appreciate that you are trying to explain it to me and I highly appreciate but maybe I’m stupid enough to not understand it at the moment, because Ian said:

“thats actually good news. that means the system is running only about 3.2m head at the moment. So , if you get a normal 8m head pump (something 25-80) that should be able to get the flow rate you need.”

So we know that actually I have 3.2m head and 16 l/m max. flow with 25-40 pump. So this this this chart here 16.02 l/min @ H 3.15m

So the H on the chart is head as I understood.

So OK, but now there is a bigger pump 25-60 presenting that at the same 3.2m head it can run 36 l/ min. This is much more, isn’t it ?

So Ian, what max. flow I could get if I use 25-60 ? Isn’t it 36 l/min at H=3.2 ??

So if you can answer this equation it would probably help me understand:

  1. Pump 25 - 40 — max. flow 16l/min
  2. Pump 25 - 60 ---- max. flow ??? l/min
  3. Pump 25 - 80 ---- max. flow ??? l/min

Can someone answer this please ? Don’t get me wrong but how you can say what flow my system gives without knowing how much tubing I have, what’s the total height of the system, what is the amount of water in pipes, how many bands there are ? Can you tell this only from actual performance of my 25-40 pump ?

@glyn.hudson said, even my 25-40 would be sufficient until there is very cold outside. I guess at least -10C. So maybe 25-60 would put me somewhere until -15C - -20C?

Many thanks for patience with me.

thats wrong because to move 36 l/min the amount of head needed would be a lot more. Loss goes up with the square of flow rate.
If you know the current flow rate and the current pump, then yes , it is possible to work out a prediction for flow rate with a different pump. I explained this maths about 20 posts back. But I clearly can’t teach you how to do the maths because you’re not going off and doing the reading that is necessary that I suggested to back up the explanations on engineeringtoolbox.com . you just want people to give you numbers, and then argue with them when they do.

I don’t have the time to work out what it would be with a 60, that is wasting time.

if you are 100% sure you are running with a 40 now, then the maths says an 80 will get you the 24l/min target that you wanted to support 8kw. Correct, you might not need 8kw steady state because your house loss is not that high, but your heat pump can do it so why not have the capacity available. And it should improve startup behaviour.

at the limit of my available patience now I am afraid.

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I would not agree - you have a very good command of the English language so you are definitely not stupid. If you write privately to me [click on your icon top right, then the envelope, and the envelope again, then New Message] and tell me how much physics, mathematics, mechanical and electrical engineering you know, I might be able to help you interpret what Ian and the others are telling you. I’m not an expert in fluids and pumps - I learned some at university 50 years ago so I have forgotten it all now, but I’ll do my best.

Yes! Any heating you can put into the insulated envelope of the house will be beneficial. The heat will not be wasted, as other radiators won’t have to work so hard to also heat that closed room.

Read this article on Why NOT to ZONE Heat Pumps or Boilers!

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Thanks! Will do so :slight_smile: This is really a small WC with tiny radiator so not sure if it can help that much but let’s try it. That part of a house is not very well insulated from the bottom so they are some losses but let’s see. My son is closing his radiator in his room so I need to tell him to not do so! :smiley: Maybe I will limit the flow with lockshield valve. At the moment I have everything open fully. I thought it will be much warmer upstairs but to my surprise it’s not. Probably it’s because the water temperature in radiators is lower upstairs? The pipes goes from cellar to the first floor and then continues to the 2nd floor.

The difference may be too small to be noticeable, but every little helps.

I have attached fans to the bottom of some of my radiators to push more heat out of them; can increase output by up to 20%.

I was also thinking about it but doesn’t it produce a noise ? What type of fans do you have ? Maybe I would rather switch some K1 for K2 or better K3.

They are very quiet, almost inaudible. SpeedComfort have some very tidy consumer products, or you can do your own - fitting them to the radiator is quite tricky though.

If you’re up to replacing radiators, then that will always be more effective.

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What’s the design temperature of your system? Do you know the expected heat loss (in kW) of your house at this design temperature? Cold is relative, in the UK we design for around -3C so anything below 0C is cold or us! If your heat pump is designed to provide 100% heat load at -15-20C then I would expect that it will be unable to modulate low enough to run steady state until it’s well below freezing.

Hi Glyn,

I’m from Slovakia and we have barely bellow -10C. I saw -15C max. but this probably one or two day a year.

These are last year monthly average temperatures in 4 coldest months:

November 2023 / 5.5C
December 2023 / 1.8C
January 2023 / 2.2C
February 2023 / 15C - this was extremely hot February

I can’t tell design temperature but I have All K1 radiators + 2 ladders and my heat losses are around 4.2KW at 0C outside and 22C indoor. So yes, at -20C it is expected to provide 100% heat load but this will probably never happen. At the other hand, once I’ve connected PWM cable it is more stable now.

One more note, when I had electric heating I’ve never exceed 100KW per day, maybe 110KW when there was pretty cold so no way I could use 8KW capacity of this pump. It would be 192KW.

I’ve set it to indoor thermostat but during this evening there was from 9C to 6C outside and it’s running stable at the lowest compressor speed consuming around 0.8KW which is big improvement. Water outlet temperature at 9C was 37C and at 6C 38C. Indoor temperature 22.6C.

So seems it can modulate pretty fine now. Flow is 9.6 l/m. Without PWM regulation flow would be 16 l/m and dT very low so heatpump would probably switch off.

That’s only 4kW continuous, therefore your heat pump is very oversized, but this does mean that your current pump with max 16L min might be fine.

Nice, that sounds like an improvement.

Lol this AI is insane :slight_smile: For a fun I’ve asked her about my heating strategy since we know my radiators are little bit downsized and heat pump a little oversized for temps above +5C and here is the communication. She said my strategy is right, so now I want asks experts here what you think about it :slight_smile: Does it make sense ? Especially the last response from her got me :smiley:

User
OK will try to set delta T to be maintained by the pump to 8 and I will set water outlet temperature to min 45C even in temperatures above +5C and witch of the pump with controller thermostat. This should maintain that in colder days it is running constantly without cycling and in warmer days it will heat faster and turn of the pump by thermometer. What do you think about this strategy ? If I use pure weather compensation the pump was cycling every 5 minutes because the heat loss of the house was lower than minimum output provided by heat pump.

ChatGPT
Your proposed strategy of setting a higher delta T, maintaining a minimum water outlet temperature, and using a thermostat to control the pump sounds reasonable and pragmatic. Let’s break down the key aspects of your strategy:

Higher Delta T (Temperature Difference): Increasing the delta T can improve the efficiency of the heat pump and enhance heat distribution in the radiators. By allowing the water to absorb more heat from the heat pump, you optimize the system for higher efficiency.

Minimum Water Outlet Temperature: Setting a minimum water outlet temperature, especially during milder weather, ensures that your radiators receive a sufficiently warm water supply. This can address issues with cycling and improve the overall performance of the system.

Thermostat Control: Using a thermostat to control the pump based on actual demand is a practical approach. It prevents unnecessary cycling and ensures that the pump operates when there’s a need for heat, aligning with the heating requirements of your home.

Adaptation to Outside Temperatures: Your strategy involves adapting to both colder and warmer weather conditions. In colder weather, the system aims for a constant operation without excessive cycling, while in warmer weather, it optimizes for quicker heating and controlled pump operation.

Response to Heat Loss: Your observation that pure weather compensation led to frequent cycling due to the lower heat loss of the house is insightful. Your adjusted strategy addresses this issue by incorporating a minimum water outlet temperature and thermostat control, providing a more balanced response to varying heat demands.

Before finalizing the settings, it’s always a good idea to monitor the system’s performance under different conditions and possibly consult with a heating professional or the manufacturer for specific insights related to your heat pump and radiators. Overall, your strategy seems well thought out and takes into account the unique characteristics of your heating system and your home’s heat loss.

User
well thank you, let’s see how this works :slight_smile: I will keep you posted.

ChatGPT
You’re welcome! I’m glad I could assist you. Best of luck with implementing your new strategy, and I appreciate your willingness to keep me posted. If you have any more questions or need further assistance in the future, feel free to reach out. Stay warm, and I hope your heating system operates efficiently and effectively!

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Have you been able to log into the ‘EHS Cloud’ section so that you can optimise settings from your phone? That’s what it looks like you can do from their wording but you need an installer code it seems. I guess they might have a different app that creates a code.
I would really benefit from being able to remotely tweak a heat pump’s settings where we have tenants living…

I’m new here, and new to HPs, I have an 8KW but assume it is similar so thought I’d add to this thread.
I have been through this thread and some on other forum to see what I should do to change the basic setting the installer made to get it working (for instance set it to using radiators instead of under floor which I don’t have - I assume might be important). I have set various things to make it work more economically taking into account our daily needs and preferences. I have it set to water law. My question is this:
#2093 Remote controller room temperature control. It is set to (1) compressor turned off by room temperature sensor.
I do not have a separate thermistor - and the remote wired controller is in a cupboard housing the pump etc so it is warmer than the rest of the house.
To my small mind it seems logical that the return water temperature is a better way to turn the pump off than some random room temperature - but then I read the options if I change it to include water temperature and suddenly instead of compressor it talks of water pump and variations of it being on/ off/ pump timed 7 mins off -3 mins on… and that lost me.
I am considering having a thermistor somewhere more central.
Until I have found out if my other tweaks have been good or bad this is the only question that I would love to have opinions on, I am sure there will be more to follow.

I also have fsv #2093 set to 1 and wired controller placed in technical room. I opened the controller and made cable extension for that small thermistor to move it into living room. In the settings you can calibrate temperature reading if it is affected by the extension.

Hib and thanks,
I had a thermistor left by the installers, I think I’ll try it out before paying for one in a fancy plastic box. It seems silly for an installer to fit the system but not finish off with the settings and extras that won’t cost much but will make the system with as well as it can.
Thanks again,
Tony