Water hammer noises and heat pump

Early days, but the DHW cycle does look better. Note how the measured heat continues until the end of electrical consumption, as it should.

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Yes, the last cycle has been perfect. If you check the box to show flow rate you should see a nice steady flow rate, if you see oscillations or the flow rate dropping out before the end of the cycle, this indicates an issue. It looks like the air issue has been resolved. I don’t think adding inhibitor has anything to do with it though.

This is news to me, where did you hear this? We’ve not been alerted about any faulty Kamstrup or Axioma meters. We’ve had a couple of Sontex meters with faulty sensors (out of hundreds), but they clearly display an error message and don’t report any readings.

Hi Glyn I was referring to this post. Odd behaviour when hitting strong man on Daikin Hot Water Boost - #65 by Timbones

I just looked at latest hot water reheat, is the spike up at 10:10am today normal along with the continuation of heat being produced after 10:40am with no electric being used this time?

It’s hot, but not delivering heat. (flowrate is zero after 11:40 as is compressor electricity)

Looks like the microbubble separator does the job nicely!

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That post doesn’t mention any fault with the meters, the post references the error which can occur due to trapped air in the system. Air in the system is very common and inevitable for a new system, it usually resolves itself assuming the air has somewhere to be released from the system.

Great to see it looks like the issue has been resolved on your system :+1:

There’s a small amount of flow rate at the end of the DWH as the residual heat in the pipes is dissipated into the heating system, it looks like a thermosyphone since the pump is not running? I don’t think it’s anything to worry about, it’s a very small amount of heat 0.181kWh

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Adding the microbubble separator has worked wonders here…should they be a default on all systems?

Are these spike ups normal giving Min Max in full window figures which don’t look right

Have now had the following back off Octopus

The Honeywell diverter valve is supplied with the Daikin Evocyl product, and so is an approved component for installation with a Daikin heat pump. As part of the design process we carry out an assessment of the pipework to ensure satisfactory flow rates are able to be achieved in line with the manufacturers requirements. This includes the flow through the valve and all other associated components. This has since been verified by an engineer on site to confirm that the correct flow rates are being met. We monitor the performance of all components we install and to date we have no evidence to suggest that this component is unsuitable for the application. However, should this change the component is covered by our warranty.

“We hereby declare that our bum is covered. Daikin supplied his with the cylinder, we approve this on the basis that sufficient flow can be achieved, and we refuse to entertain that there can be such a thing as too much flow or too much differential pressure.”

[either because they lack that design expertise within the design office or because acknowledging it would open up a large can of historical liabilities that they don’t want to make provision for fixing]

In other news Octopus all but announced that they’re giving up on the installation of heat pumps at the Installer Show this week. They’re now doing the marketing and selling the electricity; but referring installations to others that they can trust via a partner programme. This is a good thing I think. They’re good at the marketing and selling electricity part. :slight_smile:

No, they didn’t. They are simply passing leads that are outside their area or capability to other installers.

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Officially. According to the marketing spin on it.

In practice that’s a massive departure from their previous vertical integration come to you later model.

Read the octopus partner page and it also applies to EV charge points etc. Those are noddy basic items that octopus can always fit if they want to but are s
now looking for partners for instead of looking to hire and grow their original model for.

It’s a quiet admission that their old centrica/british gas style model doesn’t work (can’t make the numbers work/can’t grow by subsidising installs/can’t compete with independents) and the more uber or airbnb like model of generating the leads then referring to their network of independents (and perhaps warranting the outcomes in some way) is the only way to compete today.

Hence Adam stifling a dirty great grin if not a laugh in the vid when Greg concedes that heat geek is a good business (model) that they’ve built. :wink:

Watch this space to find the true outcome. I would bet heavily on octopus winding down their ambitions in the nationwide fleet of people in vans space in favour of trying to copy heat geek or HPIN.

I have had Octopus out yet again, they have fitted a pressure reducing valve on the cold supply tap under the sink and set it at 3 bar. Bled the radiators again no air in them after they did a Air Purge of the system in installer mode. Also topped it up to 1.5 bar on the filling loop from 1.2

I have been told that the Diverter valve just switches where the water goes from the heat pump either to the tank for the hot water or to the radiators for central heating.Guy says it’s the correct W plan valve for this system.

I am told it’s not a mid position Y plan valve but is a W Plan and it’s piped up differently I have AB at the bottom which is main flow going in and A for the Hot Water and B to the Central Heating.Told on the old fashioned system it would have been the other way round with A and B

Good to hear, the data from the past few days looks good.

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The same valve is supplied with the Vaillant heat pump hot water cylinder and they have had quite a few fail to the point they are changing the diverter valve that is supplied with the cylinders. :smiling_face:

In no way am I suggesting Daikin don’t know what they are doing, but someone IS overlooking the maximum shut-off pressures of these valves. Your system is currently running at 1500 litres per hour on DHW, which exceeds the maximum working flow rate of the V4044C imho.

Also looks like your air issues aren’t cured, and they have done a terrible job of piping up that volumiser (why not go in the side and air vent at the top?). My 12 year old has more of a clue than Octopus do it seems.

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Just why they have plumbed the volumiser up like this i really don’t know. If they had gone in the ‘side top’ tapping (as I’ve shown below) it would allow an air vent to be fitted in the top of the volumiser to release any dissolved air in the fluid (the velocity slows down inside the chamber and will naturally release dirt/air at this point)? Currently it just gets stuck in the volumiser and can go back into the space heating circuit when heating is turned off.

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They probably don’t either! :wink:

Would they buy from you if you offered training days on this stuff?

Probably not.

They won’t pay for 3rd party training either.

So I guess we do know why they didn’t plumb it up like that. :wink:

Devil’s advocate: if the volumiser were on the space heat only (not the primary) and therefore wasn’t active during summer during DHW mode perhaps having the microbubble deaerator on the primary pipe as-is, AND an air vent on the volumiser, would be sensible?

So where does this leave the end consumer? Back to square one. This is going on far too long. Just want the thing installed properly so I don’t get this hammer noise and any air in system which I thought was resolved. Is it not? I’d also like my water pressure back as it was.

The buffer being used as a volumiser wasn’t designed to be piped in the way it has been. The top tapping is for an air vent and bottom tapping is usually for a drain to remove any sludge from within it.

I am glad they have fitted a deareator but they haven’t thought about the volumiser.

Looking at your OEM it doesn’t look like it is completely resolved? Are you still getting the hammering noise?

Yes still getting a hammering noise though it has changed sound wise.

Again Octopus are coming out on Monday. I am showing them this post. No idea what they are going to do, was hoping they had ordered this part in to get the 3 way valve corrected.

Starting to go back the way it was again on the charts

Are they changing the 3 port diverter? Maybe have a listen to my latest podcast with Green Pod Energy where I talk about some of the daily oversights that are occurring with manufacturers and installation companies - ‎Green Pod Energy: Episode 37 - Rich Burrows is back! on Apple Podcasts

Also on Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/episode/6nujJK8jvR9BMZTstIzbwP?si=sVbzZLiRQ8y6stmMWcbNqw

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