Time of Use app - daily Supply Charge

Tags: #<Tag:0x00007f16a8b9e9c8> #<Tag:0x00007f16a8b9e7e8>

(Chad Smith) #1

Being in Australia, I’m liking the ‘Time of Use - flexible’ app with the multiple tariffs.
But there is one charge type missing, which is the daily ‘Supply Charge’.

In my case, this happens to be a neat AU$1/day.
It would be great to have a config field for the daily supply charge which is added to the tariff charges.

(Greebo) #2

I’ve been thinking about adding it for a while but just haven’t had the time to look at it… I’ll probably have some time over the Christmas/New Year period though.

I’ve also been considering adding an additional tariff and feed to allow for off-peak hot water as well, is there any interest in that? It would assume that you have an individual feed that measures the hot-water usage.

I’m wondering if the configuration will get too daunting with all of this functionality for someone new to it?
There’s already a lot of options to define…

(Chad Smith) #3

Thanks for the reply.
I personally don’t need the ability to define hot water on its own. I only have Peak and Controlled tariffs.

As for being “too daunting”, I’m not a coder, and not even a week into using this. I’m finding it easy enough to use, so far.
I need as many options as I need to correctly quantify the power usage and generation, and if that means having a few more options then so be it.

(Greebo) #4

Are you definitely using the “flexible” time of use app?
How are you including your controlled tariff currently?

(Chad Smith) #5

I think I have this right. You are now giving me concern that I haven’t. :thinking:
My bill only has two tariffs, and I have checked the times with the energy company. What EmonCMS is showing is matching with my last bill averages.

(Greebo) #6

That is definitely the “flexible” App, but if you only have “Peak” and “Controlled” tariffs, that App is not going to give you any values that match your bill.

In Australia there’s two general types of billing: “all day”, where you pay a single rate up to a certain kWh of usage per day, then a (possibly) different rate after that (with possibly a third rate after that); and “time of use”, where you have 3 different tariffs depending on the time of day you used your power. Both of those types also allow you to combine a “Controlled Load” on top (usually used for off-peak hot water).

This app only caters for the time of use method of billing, although if the “all day” type has the same rates for each of the daily usage volumes, it could handle that too if you defined a single Tier Name and Cost.

(Chad Smith) #7

Ah, I think I now get it. My understanding was half-way there, but you have just given me the other half.
While Controlled (for me) is within an 8-hour nightly window, only the HWS (circuit) is charged at that rate. All other is on Peak.
And therefore, as you say the ‘time of use’ app is not appropriate.

In that case, and to amend my request as per your comments, then yes a daily access charge and a controlled (i.e. HWS) tariff would be suitable.
But, since I am only using an optical sensor, then at this stage I could only use the daily access charge feature.

I shall go back to using the ‘My Electric’ app for the moment, as I don’t have different times.

(Greebo) #8

Right - and that sounds very much like “Controlled Load 1”. Our household has more variable hot water needs, so we’re on the slightly more expensive “Controlled Load 2” which has more guaranteed hours per day (and guaranteed at specific times), but like yours, is on a separately metered circuit. In my case, I also have a CT on that circuit so I can see its usage independently.

(Greg Lions) #9

Hi Greebo - I would appreciate adding of Controlled Load and Daily Supply Charge to the Flexible app ( which I just found)
I too have a separate CT for the Controlled Load circuit.

I also have Solar on my house - If I use the FEED from the cable coming in from the street for this app, how will it handle the negative values when I export power?

(Greg Lions) #10

Why i’m interested in this, would be to compare if id be better off on Time of Use billing, or better off on the Standard rates package… so thanks for adding this app!

(Greebo) #11

This is still on my list to do, I just haven’t had time due to my day job. I’ll be sure to update this thread when I make some progress though.

(Greebo) #12

I’ve just added a new app to my own fork of the apps module which includes a controlled load feed and a daily supply charge. It builds on the previous version of the App by adding them both in as additional fixed tiers.
I chose to create a new App because I couldn’t figure out how to make the required extra feeds optional config items.
Here’s the Energy View:

Here’s the Cost View:

yes… its just gone past midnight here :slight_smile:

Clicking through to the detail view shows the controlled load overlaid on the TOU graph:

Its clear to see when my hot water gets power during the day.
I toyed with stacking it, but it seemed to make more sense this way… open to other opinions though.

I’ve just noticed some weirdness in the tooltip display in cost mode but I need to get to bed so I’ll fix it tomorrow night [EDIT] Fixed and pushed to github. Anyone interested in taking a look can grab it from

I’ll give it a week or so for comments then submit a PR to get into the official module.

(Greg Lions) #13

Awesome…I’ll be trying this out tonight.

Do you think you could also add for solar export calculation?

(Ewan Fleming) #14

Bump - would also love to be able to have an input for the amount I earn for exporting solar to the grid - unless something like that already exists?

(Benjamin Harris) #15

Hi there, did you ever do a PR for the Daily Supply Charge, I’m from Australia and would like to add this in.
Here in Tasmania we have different Tarrifs that have different Daily Supply Charges. It would be great to be able to monitor these separately.

Residential light and power - Tariff 31
Daily Supply Charge $0.92736

Heating and Hot Water - Tariff 41
Daily Supply Charge $0.17292

Off Peak with afternoon boost - Tariff 61
Daily Supply Charge $0.21371

HydroHeat - 42
Daily Supply Charge NONE

(Greebo) #16

I didn’t yet, no… I noticed a bug that I haven’t had a chance to fix yet.

For the daily supply charge, it will only accept one value, so for your case you’d just have to add all of them together. Here in NSW if you have different services, it depends on who your retailer is whether they split the supply charge out or bundle it together as one item.

(Greebo) #17

I’ve just submitted a PR to emoncms/app for the new “TOU Flexible with Controlled Load” App described above (see post #12)… @glyn.hudson or @TrystanLea, appreciate if you could take a look and merge :slight_smile:

(Trystan Lea) #18

Thanks a lot @Greebo for your hard work on this, I’ve merged it in

(Benjamin Harris) #19

@Greebo, thanks a lot greebo, fantastic job.
I’ve got my head around the apps now. I’m liking your discussion on making apps more modular. I can see this will have lots of benefits.

(Alastair D'Silva) #20

@Greebo Your work looks fantastic. Are you taking feature requests? (another Aussie user here)

I have 2 PV systems, each logged to a separate feed, which are paid at different rates (due to changes in policy at the time the second system was installed).

I’d really love to integrate this information into the Time of use app too. I guess it would be similar to the controlled load, but should be graphed as a negative value.

I’d dive in myself, but it’s been many years since I did any PHP work…