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Emoncms.org billing


(Paul) #41

We seem to have been locked out of several accounts, this message is appearing

Some notice would have been useful!!!

There was a post back in January about Emoncms.org email verification but no mention of it being compulsory or that users would get locked out.

I have been involved with setting up many accounts for third parties and have a couple of my own (test and personal). I have recently accessed most of the ones that I still have control of to count the feeds, check the costs and get the feed size on disk etc to generally evaluate the move or the costs etc.

The only date mentioned thus far is July 1st 2018 and elsewhere it has been said that accounts will not “just get terminated” during the transition, so I have been waiting for the sync module to be completed so that I could backup all the data from the emoncms.org servers (incl input processing and dashboards etc) and I have just tried to log in to check something unrelated and found I could not get in, checked all the other accounts I could think of and I’m locked out of all of them.

I have “resend verification” on every single account and not received a single email, I’ve checked the spam and junk folders but nothing has come through.

Do I now need to email and get each one unlocked individually? I know most, if not all of them have a valid email although it will not have been verified.

Interestingly I have also only ever received one single email to tell me that billing was coming and that was to an email address I rarely use so I think there is an issue with the emoncms.org outgoing emails.

Why wasn’t this warned about here on the forum ahead of it being implemented ???


(Trystan Lea) #42

Hello @pb66, apologies I thought it was a small change, email verification is important and we really should have had this policy of requiring email verification much earlier, I had a couple of emails from users who did not recall creating an account which was a little concerning, without email verification you can create an account with anyone’s email address. I can easily change this back for a period of time if its a real problem. I will look into the issue with your account now.


(Robert Wall) #43

I have only one test account, and a moment ago that verified for me without any problem.


(Paul) #44

I totally agree, I have always been surprised by the lack of verification and was pleased to see you start to implement it. I expected mandatory verification to come at some point. My problem is that there was no warning, indication or even a hint that this was going to happen right now and have such a severe consequence, I’m not psychic! All I expected was some heads up.

I did eventually get a flurry of verification emails they have no indication of what account there relate to even after clicking them and no indication of the expiry time on the link, so I found myself hastily and blindly clicking all the links in the emails, I got a couple of “Invalid email or verification key” messages but mainly they were successful. I do not yet now which accounts I do or do not have access to until I try them all again.

I think that is for the best. Remove the “lockout” and make a proper announcement so that users can validate their emails or change email accounts or simply back up thier data or close thier accounts ahead of being locked out or charged.

Some users may be using a different email account now. One of the accounts I am due to move for a 3rd party has an email set up to an employee that left nearly a year ago, he was supposed to manage the account but left, I have been keeping an eye on it since and just didn’t bother changing the email since the account will be closed before billing starts.

I understand you cannot communicate with those users that fudged an email address, but if their intention was less than honest, that’s their problem. But there is no reason you couldn’t blanket email every email address on the emoncms server or even have just included a line in the email that has gone out about charging. Those of us that have multiple concerns would have hopefully got at least one email. You could announce it here on the forum, you even have email lists for the shop and for the forum, there’s twitter and there is dozens of github repos that have “followers” you could raise an issue to alert. There really is no reason we did not know about this ahead of time.

The only reason those accounts are still active is because I was waiting for the sync module, can you share some sort of timeline? Will that be complete before charging starts? Surely the “order of events” should be to give us the completed tool to move/backup the data before charging begins or locking us out the accounts without warning.


(Paul) #45

My personal account verified no problem a day or two after the very first announcement about email verification back in January. I have no doubt the verification will work, even if there is an hour or so delay.

I only have an issue with this being rolled out without warning to accounts I wasn’t bothering to update the email addresses for since they were going to be closed and there was no indication the verification was mandatory or that lockout would occur.


(Robert Wall) #46

That wasn’t a problem for me, but in your situation, I can see the nightmare it’s created. It’s a pity the email didn’t include the user name - or even a part of it. I can’t see a security issue there.


(Trystan Lea) #47

I have disabled mandatory email verification on login for now, and will send an automated email to accounts that have not yet been verified to give until 1st of June to verify account email address before the mandatory email verification is required again.


(Paul) #48

Thank you @TrystanLea

Will the sync module be complete before then?

It would be very useful to be able to just “off load” the data asap for those accounts that we know are going, you don’t want everyone using the sync module to download years of data in the closing days before “lockout” or billing starts. That will undoubtedly increase the load on the server and may cause issues for those users that intend to stay for the paid for service.


(Trystan Lea) #49

Im worried that the use of the term lockout may be misunderstood. To be clear we will not be locking anyone out of their accounts or stopping access to account data prior to accounts being archived which will happen 3 months after an account stays in negative balance. After this point account data will be kept for another 6-12 months before being deleted permanently. An email notification will be given at each stage.
It will still be possible to export data from accounts up to the point where the account is archived.

So in the case of an account that stays in negative balance after 1st of July 2018, it will still be possible to access that account and export data all the way up to 1st of October 2018.

The mandatory email verification is only an impediment to accessing data in an account until the account email address is verified. Posting data continues and no data is deleted. In the event that the email is incorrect or that the account verification emails dont get through for any reason, just send a quick email to our support email at [email protected] and we can help out.


(Trystan Lea) #50

For those wanting to download their data with the sync module, its already possible to download feed data as described above, if anyone wishes to start the process of copying accounts by downloading feed data first its possible to do that now. The sync module can be used to download data written since the last download as well, it tells you how many datapoints behind the remote server your local copy is.


(Guido Kolbe) #51

@TrystanLea Is it possible get the dashboard dump from my account?
The dashboard building is the most work.
so it’s small dump and for me easy integrade into my emoncms local server.


(Paul) #52

Or could you implement the “cut’n’paste” dashboard html content text boxes on emoncms.org as discussed in the Copying feeds and dashboards over to another online account? and Portable emoncms dashboards (looking for testers) threads?

regards the sync module

will that functionality be available ahead of the billing start date (with time to do the sync’s)? or if that’s unlikely should we just use the usefulscripts/backup (not the back up module) instead?

I’ve had a look at the sync module code, I haven’t tried it yet, but it seems to only do phpfina, is that a work in progress or will it not be doing all feeds?

What are the differences/benefits of using one method over another? It seems the usefulscripts/backup will sync if run again at a later date and it accommodates all feed type, inputs and processing, but not dashboards.

From what I can see the sync moduleallows you to pick and choose feeds but only does phpfina and doesn’t do any inputs/processing/dashboards as yet. However it does need the whole emonpi repo installed just to trigger the sync, would it not be simpler to also have a commandline alternative rather than messing around with cron etc? Like the post-process module?


(Trystan Lea) #53

Thanks @pb66 @GuidoSo, I will update soon on the sync module and copying dashboards. @Gwil and I have been working on the link between the OpenEnergyMonitor Shop and emoncms.org over the last week , so that its possible to access emoncms credit based on past order spend. We are almost there.


(Paul) #54

As a sidenote, will the delete account and mandatory email confirmation filter back to the main emoncms repo?

We see many emonPi users ask if they can reset emoncms after experimenting with processes etc and I know I could make use of the delete account button in both my test and live servers to either delete old test accounts or to remove dormant projects. The mandatory email conf should be a settings option I think, we do not want to force emonpi users to have to set up email to confirm their own accounts, nor would I want to have to confirm emails on a quick test account, but I do see the need for it on a live server.


(Trystan Lea) #55

Yes, the email verification code has already been merged and is disabled by default.


(Paul) #56

Ahh ok, I knew the email verification was merged and available, but I didn’t realize that it made email verification mandatory and would result in the lockouts I experienced at emoncms.org, I assumed that was something different as you have now managed to switch it off again, but the verification is still there, just the mandatory bit seems to be “off”.


(Trystan Lea) #57

Here’s the exact line of code that turns on/off email verification on login https://github.com/emoncms/emoncms/blob/master/Modules/user/user_model.php#L355, if email verification is disabled it wont require email verification on login.


(Trystan Lea) #58

I’ve updated the dashboard module on emoncms.org to include the dashboard html editor, which makes copy and paste download of dashboards possible, I have not yet included the update to use feed tag:name rather than feedid, which will be my next step.


(Paul) #59

So is that line currently commented out on emoncms.org? I’m trying to understand the change that occurred a couple of days ago even though the email verification has been in place for weeks/months. I’m trying to determine the difference between enabled and enforced, we have been “able” to verify emails for some time, but only recently were we not able to log in if we hadn’t verified.

I think the ability to verify email is really useful in all contexts like a email “test”, but the enforcement of mandatory verification should be a setting like multiple_users and remember_me etc.


(Trystan Lea) #60

Yes that line is currently commented on emoncms.org there isnt a sub setting to disable yet.