Hi @Stephen_Crown - thanks for the continuing info. I see that you have Target LWT on your performance graph - what Daikin data parameter are you using for that? I ask because it appears to vary quite widely over relatively short periods, whilst the Outdoor Temp doesn’t, which isn’t what I would expect on WDC + LWT control. In my case the field “LW setpoint (main)” that I am monitoring stays very true to the predicted WDC value. I can’t see any other data fields that would be relevant.
Hey @matt-drummer@John , yes I’m using pure weather compensation (LWT), but:
I use the Daikin controller to “schedule” to move the curve by an offset up (eg going into an off-peak rate) or down (going onto peak rate)
Experimentation and observation has shown me (as others on this forum for other makes have found), a slower ramp up of the flow temperature gives better CoP at the expense of comfort/speed.
So sometimes (but not all, so worth looking back through the timeline on the graphs) if I’m putting heating back on, I’ll drop the offset curve down by a couple degrees to avoid it going full pelt to get up to temperature. I’ll then check back in 10-15 mins and then move it back up.
I see this as a missing “eco” (at expense of comfort - too hot or too cold) feature in the controls tbh.
I don’t use Home Assistant for flow temperature adjustment (I could but that’s going too far), but I do use it to turn on heating a few mins prior to off peak starting (23:30 here), and in milder weather turning it off at peak time start (05:30 here).
It’s also handy for scheduling on/off for Octopus SavingSessions or Power-Ups.
I have schedules enabled but they are not available in the app unless I invoke Madoka control.
I therefore thought scheduling was not available in LWT mode.
I thought it odd that scheduling was enabled in installer settings but not available in the app, presumably you can only schedule via the MMi in this mode?
The schedule you have is only relevant for Madoka control mode.
A different schedule (weather comp curve offset) is available to set even as a “Advanced User” (code:1234) - you don’t need to be in installer profile.
Unfortunately though you do have to set on the Daikin controller as for some reason it’s not available on the app!
I have been wondering whether Homely can do a better job here to emulate the mix of Daikin schedule, Octopus SavingSession + PowerUp integration + my manual adjustments where I can to avoid the unit ramping to fast, + also trying to stay within the 4C overshoot band where I think the sweet spot seems to be (hence having that band very small - say 1C - limits the sweet spot available and short cycles then occur more frequently)
@matt-drummer this is where ESPAltherma has proven useful in addition to the new TargetTFlow feature I believe @Timbones added and is very useful to provide context in the data that is missing on yours compared to mine.
Yeah, sorry Matt, I’m already using that feature, and yes, it’s not easily spotted! Daikin really need some technical authors to write a proper User Manual, including some hints, rather than a list of buttons/knobs with their implications left for deep study.
Stephen - are you using the Daikin Altherma integration in HA to control, as well as monitor your HP? I didn’t realise it would do that. I’m also loath to use non-standard controls in case they stop working for some reason and leave us a heating-free zone. I don’t think I could be bothered to check/modify TargetFlowT against a scheduled on/off time, TBH, and I don’t turn mine off anyway, as with rads rather than UFH house temp drops and it takes a lot to get it back up.
Only for basic control (on/off) - peak/off-peak in milder weather and to schedule on/off for say Octopus savings sessions.
I don’t use it for monitoring anymore as I have ESPAltherma which is almost realtime unlike the HA Integration via API (and ONECTA app), which only updates values every ~15 mins or so (that was much better until about this time last year when they massively decreased the value in the reported data on the api to 15 min windows .)
And yes, I get HA not working or something issue, but my wife knows how to use the app to turn it “on” if it was needed, and any manual offset adjustments I make are “reset” by the Daikin controller scheduler multiple times a day, so pretty low risk imo.
Running the heat pump in steady state at the test standard conditions - or near enough to these - and demonstrating that the COP is not in accordance with these demonstrates a fault with the unit.
You then write to them with this and they investigate within 10 days per RECC. Failure to do so and you hit the chargeback button. When you have a black and white gripe such as this it really is that simple.
Don’t call though. Phone calls get passed to monkeys to deal with. Letters get passed to in house counsel or similarly higher aptitude types.
With regards flowrate:
find the pump setpoint in Daikin settings/find what controls is
work out whether it’s the unit dialling back the pump speed or all your valves/lockshields (quite possibly too small for large radiators) or both that are holding it back
What is the flow rate under the standard test conditions that I mention above?
Thanks for the interesting discussion about slow heat-up vs fast heat-up (soft start vs hard start). Like @matt-drummer I had been wondering how to avoid or minimize the hard starts that drop the COP and, in my case, at freezing temps, push the evaporator into icing up more quickly (I’m guessing). Although I do use RT control via the Madoka I’ll try changing the temp across a schedule by just the 1 c minimum and avoid any 2c jumps - to try and mimic what @Stephen_Crown is doing with Flow temp control.
Incidentally @TrystanLea and I discovered last week that the heat pump power out number that I had been reading from the P1P2 interface (same source data as the ESP altherma but using a different device to read it) DID NOT include the back up heater power produced. We were looking at my heatpump running with backup at sub zero temps in Dec 2022 and could not work out why the 3kw backup seemed to make no difference to the power produced. Something you might want to check.
Finally - has anyone checked out how the quiet mode affects the operation? I was wondering if it would promote the soft starts that we all desire. I did a brief test today and had a puzzling/inconclusive result. I was expecting that Quiet mode limits the fan speed and so expecting that it might run the compressor a bit harder to drop the evap temp and so compensate for a lower airflow. If anything the opposite happened. See below - everything stays the same except that the DT between evap temp and outside air temp drops from something between 4 and 5 down to 3c after 10:15 when I set the ultra quiet mode on.
However, in my specific case the backup heater is both disabled in configuration, and failsafe disabled by flipping the dedicated breaker for it.
Same for Booster heater - and then one step further: no longer connected to anything as Mixergy provide a Legionnaires cycle that can’t be disabled, so had Octopus take out the Booster heater connection! (Full disclosure: I use the Mixergy immersion at the top of the tankdaily to take the tank from ~50C (covered by the heat pump) to 65C - I don’t have a way to include this as yet, however if there were a way to add another data feed for the my heat pump app I could take the Mixergy api data and feed in)
Daikin controller confirms these have never run as they sit at “0hrs” running time
There is a LWT After BH data point available - it was registering lower than the LWT Return temp when I first looked at the data, so I switched to LWT Before BH! I guess that would include any BH input…
My feed to Emoncms is the Leaving Water before BUH.
I don’t use the BUH, and as you can see, and as you have seen, it reports a lower value indicating a loss as it goes through the add-on component that Octopus seem to select.
.)
