How do I add in a breakdown by Space heating and Water Heating like this
Mine just appears to show combined
Also is it normal for FlowT and ReturnT to drop off the cliff like it does on mine. I know about the Heat and Electric something been trying to get Octopus Energy to sort out for a number of months without success.
Should flow rate Min be zero???
You will need a DHW status sensor hardware for this:
I’m picking up the DHW status via a serial connection to the heat pump (Ecodan). Home Assistant gives me a sensor with this information that I then feed into Emoncms. Depending on your heat pump make/model something similar may be feasible.
Your flow temperature does drop much more quickly than on my system. Do the primary pumps continue to run after the heatpump switches off and the diverter valve has reverted to heating (once the DHW run is complete)?
Flow rate at zero is expected when your primary pump(s) aren’t running (i.e. when not running DHW/heating).
Good point, I think it’s possible to get DHW status info using espaltherma, the OP has a Daikin.
There’s air in the system causing this issue, see: https://docs.openenergymonitor.org/heatpumps/removing_air.html
I looked into esp32altherma to the point I have parts in a box sitting there.
Octopus refuse to fit this currently. They say if I attempt to do this myself I invalidate the warranty of the heat pump.
This is despite an install I am aware that was fitted as part of octopus R&D
Hi Justin,
+1 that you should take a look at Removing Air from Heating Systems
My Octopus install has 4 or 5 air release valves in the HP primary pipework. Open up the air release stoppers in these valves and when the system runs, any trapped air should escape until the float valve closes. The trapped air seems to prevent the heatmeter from registering heat flow (as well as lowering the efficiency of the HP).
My install uses a 3-way valve which is actuated by an ESBE ARA655 motor. This actuator can’t be monitored using a c.t., but it can be by wiring the optoisolator sensor that OEM recently supplied to me across the switched live input. So, I’m saying to inform OEM the make and model of your valve actuator when ordering parts. The c.t. or optoisolator can plug directly into an emonPi2, if that’s the datalogger in the emonHP kit you have.
The c.t. solution is discussed in this recent topic.
Ask octopus energy, in writing, addressed to “in house counsel” and cc-ed to their engineering director (or other “installer” contact) something like this:
"I have been told that a installing a monitoring solution for my heat pump, a monitoring solution which octopus themselves use, on my a heat pump which octopus by their attempted remedial actions acknowledge has had a number of operational and installation defects, would invalidate the warranty on the installation.
I see no such clauses in our agreed terms and conditions.
Can you please confirm in writing that in house counsel also state that this would invalidate octopus warranty on my heat pump installation, that acting to prevent scrutiny of the octopus installation is compatible with the terms octopus agree to under MCS, and that you believe this does not constitute an unfair clause in a consumer contract.
I expect a written confirmation within 14 days. Should you not provide written confirmation within 14 days I shall take it as read that octopus in house counsel do not state that installing a monitoring system, as used by octopus, on my own installation, will void my warranty and in fact has no affect on my warranty and octopus ongoing efforts to complete the installation to an adequate standard."
That’s a big “please put you neck on the block, legal, for what the installer team are saying to prevent me checking their homework.”
The hope is that legal don’t want the hassle of taking a formal position and therefore allow you, by omission, to install the widget.
Expect the relationship to deteriorate though; and Ultima to have to pay somebody else to finish the job (replace that spring shut diverter by the sounds of it) and invoice octopus for costs, who will no doubt try to cover their backsides by claiming not to be experts in the field and that Daikin said this valve would be fine even with an excessively high dP / high flow rate etc.
I do hope that anybody who still thinks the sun shines out of these guys backsides are taking lessons from their backside covering responses when their dice rolls don’t always land a six!
Does this mean you should remove the ESPAltherma prior to my annual service?!
Seems like an easy enough thing to remove and replace on a given day. How would they ever know it was installed!
I was told a customer fried a board or something along those lines and had to pay for it.
That’s fair enough, but if I have an accident in my car, I expect to pay for the repairs, but I don’t expect my warranty to be cancelled.
I’ve had both Daikin and Octopus round to adjust and service my EDLA09D3V3 and had no problem with the ESPAltherma fitted. The Daikin guy was extremely impressed, and reckoned something like it should be a standard fitting! The Octopus guy was the one who did the installer survey, having now switched to servicing, and he was very interested in how it ran etc., so the data was also of great interest to him.
Would it be possible to determine when there is a dhw cycle using software - it’s immediately obvious when looking at my daily graphs where those cycles are and seems like it ought to be a straightforward task for a bit of software?
It’s obvious enough in summer, but in winter it’s plausible that the DHW and CH could be running at the same temperature i.e around 50C so they would be indistinguishable.
For the warranty to be void, they would need to prove whatever modifications have done were responsible for the fault in question. It would be unlawful for them to refuse the warranty on a fault unrelated to the modification.
There are now 17 Octopus Energy HPs on https://heatpumpmonitor.org/, all of the systems without the MID tick have got ESP Altherma fitted, it’s a well proven system at this point. Although I don’t have any personal experiance with it.
Source?
I’m aware of unfair terms in consumer contracts (this would be one of them - we used it back in the day to sue a Volvo dealer that claimed a non-volvo service with non-volvo oil meant that they weren’t liable for a timing belt failing well before its due date and grenading the engine) but not of a specific rule. It would be good to cite!
It’s definitely not in the octopus contract and it’s almost certainly not recc consumer code compatible to arbitrarily and unilaterally change terms on people too. (which if MCS followed their own rules would terminate octopus MCS accreditation; but luckily for octopus MCS don’t follow their own rules)
Deffo press them to “put that in writing” though. I’m a the contractual equivalent of asking somebody if they would like to step outside the bar to resolve the matter. You’ll soon find if they really mean it…
