Not sure if this is the best place to ask but how have users here got on with the Octopus self instal export meter application? I applied but gave up when they wanted an advance payment.
My domestic demand is fairly well balanced in summer now as I have an EV that soaks up 10kWh on a good solar day. So not sure it is worth it for me unless I want to leverage my 10kWh battery to export at peak times which seems to be a lot of effort for small gains.
I do have an EV that in theory can be used for exporting to the grid in the near future so the economics of an export meter may change.
How big is your PV system? How much do you generate vs your consuption? I guess you’ll need to do the sums to see what your potential export payment could be over say 20 years to figure out if the £250 fee is worth it:
I would guess it will definitely be worth it financially.
I’ve changed the title of your post, since Octopus doesn’t install export meters. They just read the export register from your existing smart meter. If you have a smart meter, it will already be recording export even if you’re not getting paid for it.
Jan to date have generated 3700kWh. Heat pump isn’t really switched off either doing heating or cooling. We do not heat DHW via the heat pump, so heat to thermostat during afternoon and early morning on Cosy tariff.
We have exported 1540kWh, so £185. We had export approved last September and export around £30 to year end. So suspect we will be at break even for the approval cost by the end of the summer (approval cost £250). However based on the thousands I saved by DIY solar, not sure the additional £250 really comes into the equation.
We also export from the battery via Axle VPP and have earned an additional £61 since 17 May. Made a considerably difference to our bills.
Thanks for the input. I may well give my application another go and follow through this time.
but just for context…
Whilst my 4kWh PV system generating over 4000kWh a year is typical my usage case is probably not as I potentially have 30kWh of daily storage available…
This is what happens - . The daily peak output of the PV array is 25kWh and typically 20kWh most sunny days. The battery is 10kWh. The EV is 10kWh (40miles daily) and the 250litre DHW heat store using a Solic diverter is another 10kWh as needed (we do use a lot of hot water).
Crucially for this we are home during the day to charge the EV.
As a result my export last year was only 368kWh but that it still potentially worth £45pa.*
If I was not able to charge my EV when the sun shines it would be quite different. I would see my export increasing substantially and that would definitely make the export tariff worth it… And as a consequence the Solic DHW diverter would effectively become redundant.
*PS - Is the 12p export tariff during peak solar hours economic for Octopus or do they/will they reduce it depending on time of day? Do you need to time shift the solar export using the battery to get 12p now or in the future? As I am already using the battery for domestic consumption at night it would reduce payment income.
If you’ve not seen them already, some of the videos by @Zarch on his YouTube channel cover his assessment of whether it is reasonable to expect suppliers such as Octopus to continue to offer a 24x7 flat-rate for Export as high as 12p.
The short answer is: probably not - given that wholesale rates already tend to be low (and sometimes negative) during the peak solar hours. It seems likely that flat-rate Export tariffs will tend to reduce and in future the best rates will be reserved for Export that is time-shifted to the periods of highest demand.
Thanks davidMbrooke for the replies it does seem that whilst the 12p fixed export tariff may eventually be replaced by a TOU tariff called Prime it will favour the 4pm to 7pm slot which is ideal if like me you have a west facing solar array.
also thanks Johnmo for the Axle VPP link. According to its website you do not need an export meter just a compatible inverter with battery. Exactly how they monitor your ‘event’ export I am not sure but I will sign up and find out.
PS are there any downsides with the Axle virtual power plant - is it reliable?
PPS already signed up and working I have Solis and it took 5 minutes to get it running and earn £10 month minimum- does sound too good to be true doesn’t it
Strictly speaking there isn’t a standalone export meter, its part of the smart meter. You do need a smart meter. They monitor via the smart meter.
Axle seems reliable for us.They move the setting for the inverter/battery at start of the event and then switch them back again at the end. Have generated £23 via Axle and £70+ via Octopus in June.As we move to winter I expect Axle to generate more income and PV exports to drop like a stone.
Axle are a very slick operation. The way it integrates with your smart meter based just on your electricity bill and inverter type seems very sophisticated. The whole process took just a few minutes.
But it does beg the question what am I paying £250 to Octopus for to just get an ‘export meter’ when Axle can manage without it?
You are actually paying to get an Export MPAN. Basically a licence to get paid for export. Axle are really side stepping this.
Export payments are basically MCS closed shop thing, that Octopus have bypassed also, but they still need to tick various boxes, hence the cost.
I looked at the £250 as a small fee on top of the DIY PV install. Still thousands cheaper than a MCS install. Took a couple of years to make the move, I needed a smart meter communicated, ours wouldn’t communicate where I live. So had to wait until SIM version was available, had export approved a week or so later.
Thanks, that is a very clear explanation. I think is still worth applying for the export MPAN. Like you I originally did not have a smart meter due to my location. It will complete my solar installation and if it further reduces my bills and helps the grid at the same time then that’s great.
They should be able to make a smart meter work irrespective of your location. There are various options e.g 4G, mesh network and more recently Octopus are trialling WiFi smart meter data which uses your home Internet connection. Without a smart meter, you will be missing out on significant savings that are possible with smart tariffs.
Think the problem is more tick box related than hardware. I found on my journey I had to have 3 failed attempts (with the same supplier) to hook up a standard smart meter before octopus got permission to install a 4G version. So was told to basically go through the steps, have an install, it fails, call a book the next appointment, it failed, booked next and then got a 4G meter. Took 3 years in limbo with other suppliers, not telling me that.
I assume the new plug in solar will give an Export MPAN without needing much paperwork. I expect there will be minimal checks on how much people than exports…
Eg get plug in solar, than get a large inverter with battery installed by any Part P person without a requirement to prove the roof is strong enough etc. The large battery seems to be more economically significant than have many PV panels.
You are limited to 800W only and no notification required. Payment for export - no.
You are only allowed under the scheme/legislation to install a plug n play package, no alterations or additions. So no big inverters or battery allowed. Battery is not allowed under the scheme/legislation at all.
I haven’t seen one official source making that clear. But DNO approval is what authorises the system to connect and export. MCS is not required for that network approval. MCS or equivalent certification is, however, normally required to claim a statutory SEG tariff. A supplier can choose to accept a non-MCS installation, but it is not obliged to pay it under SEG. I got mine approved and paid (no SEG, just export tariff), so it’s possible.
Also, to make it clear. Get your DNO application approved first (you get your MPAN export at this point), then you go to your energy supplier with the letter from the DNO which contains the MPAN and you ask your supplier to accept it as the authoritative approval. You don’t need to pay any additional fee, even if they imply you do, because again, DNO has approved your export already.
There is some conflicting information here and as the OP please bear with me as I do not fully understand what is being said.
Here is the situation as I understand it…
The SMETS2 has A+ and A- registers that are always active and recording import and export in half hourly segments. They do not have to be ‘activated’ by the energy supplier. Both of these meter values can be accessed remotely over the secure DCC network by the energy supplier or anyone that has been given permission by the consumer.
For example I know that Axle VPP can access export values and will pay me a £1/kWh reward based on that retrieved export data - it is happening right now as I write this!
But whilst the typical energy supplier such as Octopus could do the same for free it says it will not because they say they cannot assign an export tariff without going through a ‘documentation exchange’ and it is the time to do that costs them money. My question is what is this document exchange who is it with and why are they demanding it? It is clearly not a case of approval of the integrity of the installation as the export is already occurring with the DNO knowledge and approval.
I can only think this is a hangover from the original MCS scheme to provide a more controlled solar generation installation process and also as an industry reward for the training they needed at the time. (A bit of a closed shop effectively).
This does seem to be unravelling now. Can someone give examples of energy suppliers that will forego further documentation and simply grant an export reward tariff like Axle VPP has done.
Does anyone agree with any of the above or have I got it all wrong?
It’s still early days for the renewable industry, there’s a concern that cowboy installers could create a bad name for the sector. MCS was setup to try and provide the customer with confidence that they will get a good installation, although this is not always the case.
At least some suppliers do have a pathway for getting an export tariff without MCS.
