I am getting a smart meter from Octopus as I wish to move to Agile. I currently have EmonPI and use it as a meter to show the difference between solar and usage so we can decide when to turn on devices/ charge up the car. I wanted to compare the consumption feed from the smart meter with the EmonTx feed and perhaps move to the smart meter.
Be aware the consumption data from Octopus is not real time. If its SMETS2 meter it is usually at least 48 hours late. This is because the meter data is collected by the smart meter network every 24 hours. It is then pulled by Octopus from the smart meter network servers some time later and is then available to you.
There are 3rd party suppliers that have devices that can collect live data from the meters local HAN network and make it available to you. If its SMETS2 meter I don’t think they have been released for general sale. I have a beta unit under test and am collecting data. The electricity feed is virtually identical to the feed I obtain from the CT so frankly is no real benefit. However if you wish to monitor real time gas consumption they are effective but the gas data only gets updated every 30 minutes. I assume this is because as far as I am aware the gas meter is battery powered.
Thanks for the info. I didn’t catch that it was 24 hours old. So not what I wanted. It is also good to hear that the CT is accurate because this is what I was going to check. I can always down load the data and then compare with the CT’s readings from 24 hours ago.
The main reason for the smart meter is to go to Agile or Go. I have an electric car ( BMW i3 - for about a year now ) but we only need a 13 amp charge and I have this mounted in a tether style so did not want to get a OHME type charger. Wanted to work out how to charge - primarily overnight but every now and then immediately.
Of course reading the smart meter won’t help in this. I seem to be rambling
Hi there. Just picking up on Ian’s point - yes, there are CAD’s available for SMETS2 devices available for sale direct to the general public (we offer one but don’t want to do self-promotion - just saying that they are available). From my experience I’d say they are more reliable than CT as they reflect the meter reads exactly, and include the gas if you have a smart gas meter. The other advantage is that you can pick up the tariff from the meter.
Hi Brian - and thank you for the welcome. I was worried about breaching community rules - we used to run one years ago on our energyhive site - and I remember some of the challenges, and opportunities
Yes, that is us and you’ve got an image of our SMETS1 device - at the moment we don’t have stock for SMETS2 (as the regulatory requirement is to give domestic customers a display there isn’t commercial demand yet but hopefully we will soon have one for the work we are now doing with non domestic).
In order to do the meter join (Open/Join HAN) as an organisation we are also a DCC Other User and there are various obligations we have to meet to ensure that our customers are able to verify that they are who they say they are before we run the join process. This is done through our Bright app - we’ve one final element of verification to add and then we will make the unit more public.
The SMETS1 device relies on obliging suppliers - very different to SMETS2 which is truly interoperable.
Hope that helps and doesn’t look like a sales pitch!
Excuse me for not being able to do inline replies.
It does not look as though the regulation about mandating the IHD will be changed soon unfortunately from what we are aware of. The ability to monitor your energy anytime, anywhere is invaluable in our view. There is some interpretation possible
We hope to offer the GlowStick as SMETS2 as well but need enough orders to justify the manufacturing cost and minimum order quantities.
Sorry, hadn’t picked up the other thread - just had a very quick skim. So we already have the service the n3rgy offer and have been an approved Other User with SECAS (the Smart Energy Code Administrator) since July 2019.
Our SMETS1 devices (prior to the GlowStick we had a wired CAD) have been on the market since 2016 and are in thousands of homes across the UK. We are happy to give our customers API access to their data, and MQTT if required. We also support a number of research projects - and are like to have people develop their own Apps and algorithms that can be added to the ecosystem.
fyi, the reason Octopus can read your mum’s SMETS1 meters as smart may well be because they and First Utility are on the Secure SMSO (does she have Secure Meters?).
The Zigbee protocol is in the public domain, it is the required security protocols (based on keys) which are the limitation.
If you highlight some text, it will offer to add it as a quote to the reply (even from different threads).
Yes definitely, but anyone buying a CAD/IHD other than that provided by the supplier is 99% wanting to do something else with the data .
I presume you can have 2 CADs connected to a meter at once (that is an assumption on my part )
Do you supply your CADs to specific suppliers & can the API be accessed or do they lock it down? Knowing the CAD from a specific supplier is one of yours and the API is available (if not advertised) might influence the choice of supplier.
@TrystanLea might be worth an integration with emoncms?
Thanks Brian for teaching me this technique! The good news is that we also sell our devices direct to the public - as these choices shouldn’t be limited to who your supplier is. There are suppliers who bought our GlowStick for SMETS1 meters but obviously they can’t install them anymore - they included Octopus, Usio, Eversmart. Anyone with Secure Meters should be able to connect our GlowStick. Our SMETS2 IHD/CAD is now being sold by a few suppliers, including Igloo and some non-domestic suppliers.
Actually we find a lot of our direct customers don’t take the API - they just want the benefit of using our Bright app to monitor their consumption as it suits them, not confined to their home.
We’d be happy to discuss this with whoever is the right person at emoncms - with the proviso that I’m not a techie so can only take the conversation so far before I’d need to get colleagues involved.
If people with SMETS2 meters are happy to have their data on an historic basis (as in not real-time), we can support that at no charge - although, as mentioned above, as a DCC Other User, we need to have the individual go through a verification and validation / consent process first.
Sorry - forgot to answer this. Yes, you can have more than one CAD connected to a meter - for SMETS2 it is apparently a maximum of 6 devices. SMETS1 varies by the meter and its related Head End. Secure Meters that are SMETS1 can have 5 devices connected.
It is the Hildebrand Glow device for SMETS2 I am using that is referred to in this thread:-
@JaneatGlow clearly is cautious about self promotion. I have to say I am very pleased with the device.
The support is first class with email response frequently the same day and sometimes within minutes!
I was interested in the first place to have something that displays up to date current cost of energy even when on Octopus Agile TOU tariff. I also wanted to be able to check my Octopus bills as its fair to say that they have had a few glitches with SMETS2 meters which Octopus fully acknowledge.
With the Glow API and Octopus API I can pull accurate smart meter data and TOU tariff data with a crude python programme that has start and end date and gives a totalled print out within a few seconds (depending on the length of the period). I should probably also say that my Octopus bills have always been correct within a few pence which I guess are rounding errors.
All in all a very satisfied customer of both Octopus and Hildebrand…
Ah OK, how are you doing the integration? Python? Care to post it on a new thread? I can’t test, but part of my reluctance on the meter front was the inability to get the data. If that is actually now possible I may be persuaded especially if they come with one of the Glow devices!
As I understand it the Hildebrand Glow is just another IHD on your local zigbee HAN. Therefore until the Octopus IHD works the Glow won’t work. The main IHD difference is that it has a wifi connection as well and Hildebrand being licensed by the DCC (in the south west. I don’t know who covers Wales) are able to read the meter directly which they do every 5 to 6 seconds. The data is then available on Hildebrands Bright App and via API. They also publish data via MQTT
The API details are here:-
The MQTT is undocumented and is a json object but with some zigbee documentation I was able to work out what the gas and electric meter fields are.
I will confirm with Hidebrand that the zigbee documentation is OK to publicly share and if so will post details here or maybe @JaneatGlow will respond.
I am processing the MQTT data in nodered but have some issues publishing to emoncms as described in this thread:-