If they’re genuinely capable of surveying building fabrics and heating systems of all flavours and designing/redesigning heating solutions… there’s probably at least as much thinking and training in there as a basic doctor. Buildings are very varied in their biology and auffer from all kinds of ailments.
The salaries on offer reflect this. Noddy basic doctor makes say 2x minimum wage. Skilled surveyor and designer that can also do pipes say 5x minimum wage plus.
If they’re purely a pipe slinging monkey working for an energy company any incapable of surveying or designing then no. They probably make basic doctor money or 2x minimum wage.
If they’re a specialist doctor then no. They’ll also make 5x minimum wage plus. Much of doctoring is reassuringly basic / boring though. House MD it is not.
This kind of reality check comes as an unpleasant surprise for a lot of white collar workers who’ve taken it as read that what they were taught as children about the skill level and market value of various professions is true.
An an unpleasant surprise for energy companies trying to hire those with the skills needed to delegate and not encounter issues too. A heat pump a week is a six figure salary for those capable in the current environment. Those still training or simply not capable take a job for Big O at a third to a half that.
Haven’t listened to it but will do. MCS basically runs through working groups composed of members who give their time to develop the programme. This is unpaid. If you don’t like something, you can join and give a counter argument. I used to attend the PV working group as I fundamentally disagreed with the mandatory use of the standard output estimation methodology. A manual and cumbersome procedure. Had been using expert system software to do this from day one. We made some progress, and over the years the position changed as technology changed.
MCS standards also have to incorporate and reflect other standards and legislation. There is a large amount of it. One other precursor for involvement and membership is demonstaration of professional competence and qualification. This can be work based competence if properly documented, but normaly a recognised qualification, and quite rightly. I probably held more plumbng and heating qualifications than the average plumber or heating engineer. This was my choice. Same with PV. Qualifications are a start point not the end. If you are serious about your profession, training never stops. Although now only undertaking Consultancy mainly in PV this continues. Full Heat Geek is on the list for this year. Couldn’t do this without the building blocks alredy in place.
I have seen some hair raising work undertaken in the name of Part P defined scope. There is no direct equivalent of Part P in Scottish Building standards. However, and quite frighteningly, anyone can describe themselves as an electrician. As far as I am aware this is also true of England. This has been consulted on in Scotland but not moved to a conclusion.
Having properly qualified and skilled people in the industry is essential.
Membership of MCS is not a huge financial overhead. Its actual operation now places far more emphasis on installation rather than paperwork systems. It brings benefits for customers as a gateway to qualification for grants and Loans. The insurance industry looks on it favourably.
The real bottom line is if MCS didn’t exist something else would be there in its place. As already stated, there are alternatives in the market, but the perceived issues will be the same.
Good points well made. There is also a skills shortage right now. The son of a friend in the industry is a year out of his electrical apprenticeship. He is pulling down £75k a year at 23 years old! I don’t regret going to university but in reality many friends who didn’t, ended up making way more money.
To the best of my knowledge, for “Part P” compliance, you or your firm needs to be be registered with a trade body. I don’t know the level of qualifications required for that. However, BS7671, otherwise known as the IET Wiring Regulations, is written by a committee comprising representatives of manufacturers and those trade bodies, the BSI, many other interested parties and of course the IET, the institution which operates under the authority of a Royal Charter which regulates the electrical and electronic engineering profession. Yet as a Chartered Electrical Engineer, I’m not allowed to do any more in my own home than a householder with no electrical knowledge whatsoever. I leave it to the reader to decide just how sensible this arrangement is.
You can do whatever you like in your own home, at your own risk. In your own case, I would think you can point to work based competence and the experienced worker route. As always, rightly or wrongly, the organisation who may look askance are your insurers…
If you think MCS is in restraint of trade, make a detailed compaint to the Competition and Markets Authority detailing how this is the case. Good luck with that.
Ask if he can spare the time to go back to school and share that with the other kids; even if the teachers are aghast!
Skilled trades were always well paid historically.
I think what’s reversed is the availability of skilled trades from the east at less than the prevailing wage. A coffee in Vilnius or Warsaw now costs more than a coffee in Sheffield because the folks buying those are paid more.
Lots of fun and lots of pay are a rare combination!
Not even offering supermarket money for 21 year olds.
They’re really PLUMBERS rather than surveyors / designers / heating engineers though. The ones that carry the pipes and join them. The Octopus busienss model relies on all the thinking being centralised and automated and the boots on the ground being little more than biological robots. That’s how it works in the rest of their business and why they’re struggling to deliver quality at volume in the heat pump space.
Note the advert is as misleading as we have come to expect from Octopus and doesn’t state what the ACTUAL salaraly is (without overtime, without the bonus for hitting targets that you won’t hit, and without overvalued training that isn’t money in your pocket etc) - it appears that “£45k” in Octopus money translates into “£32k” in actual money.
Plumbers = 2x minimum wage; plumbers that have passed a basic set of exams on gas safety 3x minimum wage; not currently recruiting heating engineers but they would be nearer 5x minimum wage.
You’d probably be better off working for Vito than Octopus:
Better training / exposure to colleagues that know what they’re doing than in a large business
Future employers won’t worry that you’ve swallowed too much of the kool-aid to be trainable
You may not have to pay much but the TIME it takes to deal with MCS nonsense and the RISK it adds on installations by having to contract with Karens the RECC way and agree to follow manufacturer instructions even where these are backside covering lunacy etc.
The cost of doing that FIRST heat pump install under your own name - assuming you’re otherwise a jobbing plumber / gas fitter - will be in excess of £10k.
SIGNIFICANT barrier to getting involved.
On the flipside it’s near ZERO cost for large outfits such as Octopus that can automate the generation of utter garbage paperwork; have sufficient lawyers on the payroll that MCS wouldn’t dare sanction them for breaching scheme rules or delivering naff installations etc.
It’s a market distortion very much in favour of badjob by bigco; just as it was designed.
If that’s what you want…do it on purpose through Building Control ad with G3. That’s what Building Controls is there for. Don’t half-bake backdoor it through planning.
I had a poor ASHP installation in 2019. I tried with the installer for six months to get it addressed.
I raised it with MCS. Then directed me to NAPIT. I raised it will NAPIT and they ignored me.
I could get no engineer, surveyor, other installer or anyone to assist. Stranded and helpless. I started studying and learning.
Winter hit. I gave up and got my hands dirty. Fixed it myself.
Eventually when NAPIT responded I had started rectifying the problems myself. I let the the complaint time out.
I have been listing to a few podcasts on ‘Fix Radio’. These podcasts are aimed at the trade and their comments on these industry bodies are elightening. It does not feel to me like MCS/NAPIT etc. are there to protect or help consumers.
DLUHC started a consultation today on changes to permitted development that includes heat pump rules as well as other things. It runs until 9 April if you want to submit opinions.
I think the comparison between GasSafe and MCS is Apples and Pears. A better comparison is using a qualified Electrician for serious electrical work. I’ll do simple things myself, but nothing more than modifying a lighting circuit or adjusting a ring main.
My beef with MCS is 3 fold;
Most of the installers are simply price gouging and taking ridiculous profit margins because they can.
The standards MCS set out are often worng and at worst, stupid.
Many of the ASHP MCS trades folk are pretty poor and MCS provide no comeback for the consumer.
If MCS acted to protect the consumer and provide good standards to assure installations, then I’d be for it. As it stands it is no better than the Mafia.
Octopus have started a scheme allowing export on non-MCS PV installs. Obviously it needs to be done by a qualified electrician, but this would remove the price gouging effect if there is a greater supply of installers.
Doing the roof work myself for PV would half my install costs and almost certainly would be a better job.
I refuse to pay for an installer’s Maldives holiday.
