Yes sure! any other clarifications welcome
I think we need some extra clarification on terminology - maybe via the ‘tool tips’ (black circle with ‘?’) we have on some fields? In my experience, different manufacturers use different words like “boost”, “auxiliary” or “immersion” heater and since the whole objective here is consistency we want to ensure we’re talking about the same ‘thing’ in each installation.
Maybe referring to some sort of generic schematic diagram would help? That certainly helped me understand that “immersion heater” wasn’t the one in the DHW tank, controlled separately from the heat pump.
That logic is working well for my system - i.e. I see the option (but haven’t ticked it).
- Looks like there might be a glitch in the H3/H4 derivation logic - my system is showing as ‘H4’ when I haven’t ticked the Secondary pump option; it only drops to ‘H3’ when I un-tick the Primary pump option
- I’ve realised that UFH manifolds often have their own pump; that would count as a Secondary pump too - might be worth including that in a ‘tool tip’ for what a Secondary pump is
Is there an implicit assumption that e.g. ‘Includes primary circulation pump’ applies to both the Electric meter and the Heat meter? Might be useful to state that assumption (or to have separate tick-boxes for each meter, but that might get too complicated).
On an unrelated note, I always struggle with the “Freeze protection” option, which doesn’t apply to a Ground Source system. Would it be possible to make that ‘Not Applicable’ if Ground Source is selected as the System Type? (There’s always Glycol in the Ground Loop, but the Heat Meter never sees that.)
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Agreed the terminology used by the various manufacturers for ‘supplementary’ electric heating can be very confusing. The ‘immersion’ reference could be either domestic hot water, heating or both. Is having separate monitoring of direct electric heating for the heating , call this say htg_immersion, and direct electric heating for the domestic hot water cylinder, call this say hws-_mmersion, worthwhile? I will be doing this with mine just to keep track for my own mionitoring. At the moment the htg_immersion is lumped together with heatpump_elec.
Agreed, I think for Daikin it’s:
- backup heater (in-line heater on primary pipework can be used for both DHW and space heating, but mostly is there for space heating?).
- booster heater = DHW tank immersion heater
Perhaps it would be clearer if I refer to the distinction between these in the form as?
- Electric element in-line on primary pipework (Typically used to supplement space heating, may be used at start of hot water cycle by some heatpumps?)
- Electric element in hot water cylinder (can be used to supplement water heating only if e.g cycle is taking too long and for legionella protection)
Rather than use backup/booster/immersion terms?
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The electric element in the primary pipework should be picked up by the heat meter, though depending on sensor placement this may not always be the case. Daikin integration does not include the heat output from the backup heater I believe.
The electric element in the hot water tank will not be picked up by the heat meter.
Personally I think the longer, more descriptive text is much clearer. It should apply across all manufacturers and will translate better to other languages.
(NIBE refer to “Additional heat” from their equivalent of the “backup” heater; they clearly mean Additional to Compressor-derived heat but out of context I don’t find that term at all meaningful.)
I’m sorry but I’m still confused.
If there is an immersion heater that can be used for Legionella but this isn’t recorded in the electricity meter in MyHeatPump would this reduce to an H2?
Also the MyHeatPump app immersion heater feed should not be used for a PV diversion immersion but what should happen if this immersion is also used for Legionella.
I keep thinking I understand this but then getting in a muddle again.
Correct
Ideally the immersion heater feed in the app should be used for legionella only, but separating these may be too complicated?
Looks good to me.
I’ve fixed the derivation logic to include the new fields and to improve the hover over tooltip, this is what I have in the logic at the moment:
// Start at 4
var helper = "";
if ((type == "Ground Source" || type == "Water Source")) {
helper = "- Compressor metered\n";
} else {
helper = "- Compressor and fan metered\n";
}
var boundary_code = 4;
// If hydraulic seperation is used and secondary pumps are not metered then boundary can not be higher than 3
if (hydraulic_separation != 'None' && metering_inc_secondary_pumps==0) {
boundary_code = 3;
helper += "- Hydraulic separation used but secondary pumps/fans not metered\n";
}
if (hydraulic_separation != 'None' && metering_inc_secondary_pumps==1) {
helper += "- Hydraulic separation used and secondary pumps/fans metered\n";
}
// If primary pumps are not metered then boundary can not be higher than 3
if (!metering_inc_primary_pump) {
boundary_code = 3;
helper += "- Primary pump not metered\n";
} else {
helper += "- Primary pump metered\n";
}
// If immersion heater is used and not metered then boundary can not be higher than 2
if (uses_immersion == 1 && metering_inc_immersion == 0) {
boundary_code = 2;
helper += "- Immersion heater used but not metered\n";
}
if (uses_immersion == 1 && metering_inc_immersion == 1) {
helper += "- Immersion heater used and metered\n";
}
if (uses_immersion == 0) {
helper += "- Immersion heater not installed or used\n";
}
// If backup heater is used and not metered then boundary can not be higher than 2
if (uses_backup == 1 && metering_inc_backup == 0) {
boundary_code = 2;
helper += "- Backup heater used but not metered\n";
}
if (uses_backup == 1 && metering_inc_backup == 1) {
helper += "- Backup heater used and metered\n";
}
if (uses_backup == 0) {
helper += "- Backup heater not installed or used\n";
}
// If brine pump is used and not metered then boundary can not be higher than 1
if ((type == "Ground Source" || type == "Water Source")) {
if (metering_inc_brine == 0) {
boundary_code = 1;
helper += "- Brine pump used but not metered\n";
} else {
helper += "- Brine pump used and metered\n";
}
}
// Air to air is always 2
if (type == "Air-to-Air") {
boundary_code = 2;
helper = "";
}
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Daikin integration has R1T sensor before BUH (backup heater) and R2T sensor after BUH so should pickup inline heating if correct sensor is used. Maybe some models that don’t have both though, and some definitely don’t come with a BUH by default.
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Thanks Ben! Yes I remember that now!
Help going through all systems to make sure the ‘included in metering’ options listed are correct would be much appreciated.
E.g Daikin systems that are likely to have both backup and immersion heaters installed, but may not be enabled/used and what is and is not included in the metering will also vary:
https://heatpumpmonitor.org/?period=all&minDays=0&filter=daikin&other=1&hpint=1&errors=1.
There are also a lot of systems with immersion heater electric use monitored but heat not included e.g https://heatpumpmonitor.org/system/view?id=134, https://emoncms.org/app/view?name=MyHeatpump&readkey=723648fa83c8158a1842c6b49f5b1801&mode=power&start=1721321460&end=1721323960
Mm, maybe I could manage this. I have the immersion consumption from the Eddi and can get a flag from the Ecodan to say when its doing a Legionella cycle so I could probably put together a feed for this.
Not that I think I’ve ever run a legionella but I could.
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