I got my Octopus Daikin heat pump installed last week, and have just discovered this thread and working through what I need to do to set it up. It is very informative and I’m just waiting for it to stop raining to open up the monobloc.
I will start of with trying to install the ESP inside the monobloc and see if the wifi signal is good enough. For the independent energy monitoring, I’m not sure which live it need to go around. In the garage (where I already have a Harvi) I have the consumer unit which takes the mains power from a henly block and I can see the live cable there, but in the back garden I also have a second consumer unit which I think (I can get photos tonight) has two cables going to the heat pump, one for the pump and one for the booster/immersion power?).
If it’s the unit in the garage then I can easily run a new CT clamp to the Harvi (what should I set this to so it doesn’t mess with the displays in the Myenergi app). If it’s the consumer unit in the garden then I will need a Shelly.
Lastly, I know this thread is specifically about OEM and ESP but I’ve not had much luck in the forums. As we had an Eddi, we are using that to control the immersion and the legionella cycle, and have turned this off in the MMI. I have seen there is a way to use the relay in the Eddi to connect it to the heat pump, but the installer didn’t know how to do this, as there wasn’t a suitable connection in the monobloc, but they left a spare cable run incase it can be worked out. Has anyone in this thread got this set up?
The setting you are looking for is called smart grid on the Daikin units and octopus set this up but I had to get all the schematics and talk the electrician and the head of electrical services through it (as it is not something they normally do).
I wonder if I can get the electrician from the job back, they seemed quite keen to get it working but didn’t have enough info at install, so just left the cables.
Do you have a photo of the inside of the Eddi as there are more connections there than I expected. Also where do the CT clamp for the pulse meter go?
You can try asking but electricians at octopus are in high demand (heatpumps, EV chargers and smart meter swaps etc.), if it was not on your contract you may need to get another sparkey in to do it.
The data / pulse output connections from the pulse meter (CT clamp onto main incoming cable) go directly to the heat pump and this is what allows it to modulate and only use what you have as excess. If you don’t want to use this you can manually set a limit but this may end in you importing electric.
The images of the connections in my Eddi can be seen below.
If the unit is currently is inline with the mains supply or on a CT clamp then provided this is on the mains supply that will be fine. You just need a pulse meter output to feed into the heat pump.
Do get an electrician to do this or be sure to isolate all supplies before looking at it.
You can always run the cable in advance in ducting to make this easier on install day. Just leave it disconnected at both ends.
You will still need a way to get the signal from the meter to the heatpump as the connection for this is inside the outdoor unit.
The heat pump is already installed. The electrician left a spare cable run from the hot water cylinder to the heat pump which is either 4 or 6 core, so I have what I need to connect the Eddi to the heat pump. I just need the 2-core from a pulse meter.
Can I just check how it works in this set up? I’m expecting the Eddi can monitor for solar excess and trigger the immersion heater, but the heat pump can also make a call to override the Eddi to run a legionella cycle when required? At the moment the Eddi is essentially decoupled from the heat pump (I think it just gets the power supply from the control box inside), so the heat pump doesn’t have the booster (powerful setting in the app) enabled.
I’ve also in the past couple of days got the ESPAltherma running on an ESP32, I just need to add a monitor to get the energy draw from the heat pump to be able to calculate my COP.
We have an Eddi connected to the immersion heater, and Octopus didn’t make any connections to the heat pump. I don’t know if there are any spare cables…
@KnightPhoenix - can you explain what the smart grid settings are for, and why a pulse meter is required?
I had assumed that when the heat pump runs a legionella cycle it would get the tank up to 50C (say), then close the contacts connected to the Eddi relay board, causing it to run the immersion heater, and when the 60C is reached for the required period it stops the Eddi.
(@Timbones maybe Eddi / Daikin integration could be forked to a new thread?)
From my understanding the Eddi basically becomes a smart relay.
So the Eddi detects what is being exported to the grid (house usage and topping up a battery would take priority and are not counted). Once the export is above a set level (including or excluding what is going to the immersion depending on the “include diverted” setting), then the relay for the smart grid is activated, this will tell the ASHP to run and use excess electric to firstly overheat the DHW tank to the maximum temperature, Then if room buffering is enabled increase the heat of the house up to the comfort setpoint. (this is covered in the Daikin installer reference guide, all be it a bit al over the place) Daikin call this setting “Smart Grid”.
The pulse meter on the incoming mains tails sends out a pulse signal that the heat pump then uses to limit / range rate the current usage of the unit to only use what is being exported (if you are exporting 800w of solar to the grid, the ASHP will only use 800w and not run at full power for the DHW or room buffering). Alternately you can set static power limits in amps or watts and this is mentioned in the reference guide, be aware though if you set this to say 2kW, that this may mean you are exporting 800w and using 2kW to overheat DHW (not the best use of electric).
With regards to the Immersion you would also wire up the immersion wire from the ASHP to the e~sense port on the Eddi (as mentioned in the word doc) and then setup the boost function to activate when 220 - 240v is sensed on this port (this is only sensing the presence of voltage and not actually taking any current from the ASHP). This will then via the configuration on the Eddi trigger the immersion heater to run at full power regardless of any solar input.
This allows you to set legionella cycles and boost the hot water on the Madoka (Daikin controller) and allows the ASHP to have full control of the immersion heater while still keeping all of the smart features of the Eddi.
The wiring is covered in the word document and the initial configuration on both the Eddi and the Madoka is also listed. As mentioned My installer has done this for me so Octopus have previously done this and it does work.
With regards to ESPAltherma, it is ok but remember the Daikin meters are not as accurate as MID metering and any changes or manipulation to any figures will show on the portal (for example I see one Daikin with about a 30% lower electric usage compared to every other unit so the SCOP looks great but that sort of SCOP will not reflect in your actual billing due to the laws of physics). Not sure if that is due to the Daikin meters being that far off or if some data manipulation is occurring in HA for some reason or another but something to think about. A SCOP of 12 on the chart is not relevant if you are still only actually getting 2.6 in real life.
So for my install, Octopus installed two separate plastic consumer units outdoors.
One by the meter cupboard - this contains the ob-115 for the mains power export metering (with a split CT clamp) and has a two core cable for the pulsed output feeding back to the ASHP.
The one by the ASHP - This contains the SDM230ModBus meter (metering the energy usage of the ASHP) with a three core cable going up to the airing cupboard where I have the modbus-usb adapted directly into my EmonHP (OEM heatpump l3 kit) You could also plug this into a HA unit or into any other PC and just configure the readings to direct to Emoncms.org. This is a bit more expensive but would ensue MID certified electricity readings.
To get the heat meter is expensive (that’s just what they cost) but would allow you to have very accurate flow and heat output readings and a very reliable COP. Just depends how much you are interested in the figures being accurate and using them to tweak the system / highlight issues or if you just want an approximate guess at the COP / what’s going on.
I work in the tech industry and am very data driven so the £600 was the only choice for me, Octopus did install for an extra £200 (in April 23) but I am sure if you spoke to the right people from the install team and plied them with coffee / biscuits and maybe a pizza for lunch they may be willing to pop it in for you (not sure they would be interested to install after the event but nothing ventured i guess). This kit also clearly showed some major issues with our install and ended up with Octopus basically swapping out the heat pump, changing more radiators and re piping the upstairs to correct these (if you look at my stats you can see steps in October and January in COP).
Just remember all of this is possible as you can have a separate sparky and plumber come and retrofit and you can run extra cables / conduit but it just depends how much you want to spend, how much disruption you want (we installed underground ducting to hide the cables and had to dig up the driveway) and what your goal of all of this is.
Hi @KnightPhoenix – new here as I signed up specifically for this thread; Eddi and Daikin integration. I’ve been studying your wiring design with my Octopus engineers and I think I’ve convinced them to help me do it! I have all the right pieces; OB-115 and Eddi relay board, and they’re doing the wiring TODAY.
My main question is why you’re using two relay channels on the Eddi to the heat pump? Your wiring diagram doesn’t explain and we’re just a bit puzzled. What does relay 2 do in your case?
The Eddi relay board had two relays, the ASHP has two relays for allowing you to control forced running/ stopping etc.
I had a 4 wire cable and just setup both, are both needed and in use yet - No, it is just future proofing as there is no way of running an extra cable inside the conduit now it is installed and having a pair of loose wires floating inside either unit would not be electrically safe.
If your guys get stuck ask for super Steve or message me and I may be able to point your team towards the guy who installed mine.
If you can share privately the details of the team that would be helpful. I’ve still not got this set up and periodically go via Octopus after care for support to get some help on getting the heat pump working in a certain way and I think having the Eddi decoupled to the heat pump confuses things.
For example in the summer I wanted to do a short hot water cycle to regen the cylinder but customer support told me to use powerful mode which doesn’t work as the immersion is decoupled from the heat pump.
Cheers! OK that makes sense, I was just trying to figure it all out in my mind.
The Octopus guys are saying that they’ve had a bit of a crack down on non-standard work, and that doing things like this is a “grey zone”. We’ve compromised, and they have put the 4 wires between the pump and the Eddi for me and will wire that in via ducting, but they couldn’t understand my request for the CT clamp between the mains tails and pump so they didn’t lay the 2 wires needed there. I’ll have to get that done separately.
They did offer to put me in touch with head office, as they are interested in working with customers on tech integrations such as this. I’ll see how far that gets me, might get some free support that way (?), and will share if successful!
When you say decoupled, what do you mean? I think the right way to do it is to use the eSense input on the Eddi relay board to trigger the Eddi to use the immersion, is that correct? That means the pump can do legionella cycles and boost up to the DHW set point?
The Eddi needs to have control of the immersion to divert low amounts of power not adequate to run the pump itself, I think.
This is all quite new to me, so this thread has helped immensely!
The ct clamp goes onto either the mains tails or onto the output of the solar inverter
This allows the ob115 meter to detect the amount of excess solar beings generated and sends this to the heat pump using the 1000pulse/kW pulse connections (2 wire).
The ASHP will then use this data to limit the amount of power it will draw when running in PV diversion mode (so if you only have an excess of 600w the pump won’t run at 1.6kw to buffer the DHW).
The Eddi relay is only on /off so without this you either have to accept using grid electric during buffering or set a manual static limit (which may still use grid electric or still allow for export depending on generation).
By decoupled I believe we are referring to the way octopus used to slap these in.
They would leave the Eddi and immersion as standalone and the ASHP would not have any connection to it or way to trigger the immersion.
They usually setup a scheduled disinfection cycle on the Eddi and turn it off on the madoka.
I never understood why when the simple option of going ASHP to e-sense and Heater1 on Eddi to immersion heater then means you only setup the Eddi once and all future configuration is on the madoka (much simpler).
Yes that’s what I have currently. They adjusted the power supply for the Eddi to come from the big junction box installed where all the electrics come into the house.
I’ve independently installed a Shelly unit with two ct clamps, and when the Eddi does its scheduled legionnaire cycle you can see the power going through what would ordinarily be the booster heater. But there is no communication between the ASHP and Eddi.
I have home assistant set up to turn the Eddi from stop to eco and a once a week boost to make sure I get a higher temp for DHW once a week.
Like @strombolite Octopus did run 2x 2 core in the conduit between the ASHP and Eddi and terminated them in wago boxes. But I don’t have the two core for measuring the mains export.
