A few people on the buildhub forum have done this ā https://forum.buildhub.org.uk/
It seems a well known heatpump should be able to be provided on same type of setup.
I wonder how they deal with the MCS union requirement that only MCS labour is allowed to install heat pumps under the MCS schemeā¦
If you mean a āwell known BRANDā then I believe they can. I believe, there are several umbrella MCS schemes under which you could certify an ASHP from a well known brand. Of course there are brands that will only supply through a dealer network.
Donāt the heat geek guys run an umbrella scheme?
MCS isnāt a union - although it behaves like a closed shop. And thereās no such thing as MCS labour as far as I know - although you do need an electrical certificate to comply, so need a qualified electrician.
MCS is a quality standard, so a tick box exercise - have you done the heat analysis, has it been properly installed (electrical certificate), is the heat pump certified etc. Have you provided all the documentation to the end user etc.
So Cool Energy make sure you are in compliance and then can issue the certificate. You also need an installation to be MCS certified to get the ASHP grant (Ā£7500).I think they can apply for this for you.
Not that Iām cynical but thereās lots of postings on forums that seem to indicate that the difference between an MCS installed system from a well known brand is at least Ā£7500 more than the cost of the parts and the time for an electrician and plumber - odd that! Oh, and the fact that lots of these systems are over-specced, so donāt work very well due to the way MCS dictate the heat analysis is done.
MCS is effectively a union.
Their critical MCS 020 standard (the bit that allows heat pumps to be installed under permitted development) requires that the installation work is undertaken by companies that are MCS accredited and have paid their MCS fees.
This isnāt about heat pump being X noisy when installed in accordance with Y technical requirements. It also needs to be installed in accordance with commercial agreement Z that has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on the performance of the installation and serves only to ensure that only paid up MCS union members are permitted to install heat pumps under permitted development.
If weāre being generous thatās effectively union behaviour. Others might describe it as a government enabled cartel to try keep the one man bands responsible for the vast majority of domestic heating systems out of the market. The civil servant personally accountable for MCS recently stepped in to protect MCS from commercial competition by prohibiting Flexi-Orb from competing with MCS on the grounds that āthey were working on fixing the shortcomings with MCS and this might make it worseā without offering any evidence to support this position.
Iām genuinely curious how Cool Energy work around this for the retrofits. (do they āhire subcontract labourā to install their heat pump for Ā£0 perhaps?) MCS certificates can be rug-pulled after the fact and the organisation doesnāt behave in a manner that inspires trust. Perhaps well worth the risk for a āfree kitā but could also be a headache if youāre ever selling the house, insuring the house, or indeed barred from participating in electricity market programmes.
(e.g. As the owners of non-MCS certified solar installations on new builds were up until yours truly had a go at Octopus and made their legal team walk-back some of the statements being made that were in breach of the conditions of their supply license)
MCS donāt dictate how heat losses are calculated for what itās worth. They just provide design guidance that just as misleading as their quality assurance processes and their marketing claims. Installers are still free to override all of it - and should - with respect to system sizing. 
Iāll go with government enabled cartel.
Iām meeting with them tomorrow - so Iāll ask.
That might be unfair on government as a whole. It it just the one civil servant - and I guess the handful of bosses above him accounting for his behaviour - making the decisions. David Capper is the decision maker. He is the one who has taken it upon himself, as the senior responsible officer personally accountable for MCS, to enabled their monopoly. There is no primary legislation or direction from Westminster forcing it to be so. It is David Capperās personal decision based on his personal judgement and personal interests.
Let us know how Cool Energy contract for this MCS BUS stuff. I know a couple of folks who would be happy to take on retrofits if they can secure their Ā£7500 tax rebates without having to hire MCS union plumbers to do the installations.
It seems there are many organisation that will provide heatpump, tank, paperwork, calcs for anyone with a C&G in plumbing and G3 cert to install in their own home. They do a free on site commissioning and checks after the heatpump been installed.
I think cool energy is a MCS umbrella that donāt require C&G in plumbing to join itā¦ā¦
I donāt know what the C&G paperwork costs to buyā¦ā¦. I also donāt know why soldering skills are needed to installed a heatpump with modem pipework systemsā¦.. (DHW tank harder unless preplumbed due to large number of bends.)
Marko, if you know folks interested, itās probably best to get them to get in touch with Cool Energy.
Basically, as I understand it, CE will do the initial work, i.e. the heat analysis and the grant application. Theyāll supply you with the installation kit with instructions. Then itās up to you to DIY it, or sub it out to a plumber and electrician (youād need a sparky as you need the electrical certificate for the final MCS documentation). Then they come and ācommissionā it for you, i.e. make sure itās fully working according to the spec and has been properly installed.
If you think about it, this is probably how many MCS installers work, i.e. they do the client facing bit, heat analysis, spec, commissioning but subcontract the electrical and plumbing work to trusted 3rd parties. In this case, the trusted 3rd party is you, the self builder, or your contacts.
Just re-read this Marko. How can my MCS certificate be rug-pulled after itās been issued. If a company has been doing installations properly and have issued me an MCS certificate, then how can this be pulled? I can see that MCS may remove an installer from the scheme but that canāt affect a certificate that has already been issued.
The example you use is for non-MCS installs - if they has been MCSāed, then things would have been fine.